Where is the exploration?

For me personally, getting everything is easier than with the old system: With the old system, I often took one good luck at a system with 50+ stellar objects in it and just immediately jumped out again. The FSS often tempts me in getting all of those objects scanned down. It's addictive! It's also nice that I can then use the scans to decide which planet is important enough for a probing visit. :p

All in all, I think the new system is a vast improvement.
 
For all the apparent divisiveness around the subject, the FSS wasn't an accident, it was introduced because as far as FD were concerned, not enough players engaged with exploration (rather like not enough engage with CQC, Powerplay, Engineering, multi-crew... The list seems to go on, and the coming II seems to suggest that perhaps not enough are engaging with the Guardian content).

As far as exploration goes, the FSS targets the the things that FD identified were putting players off, namely long SC journeys to scan bodies and tag them (and get pretend credits in return), along with the new DSS the ability to find things on planets, and passive (AKA boring) gameplay. These changes speed up exploration, and that was likely a side goal, after all, over four years in and only about 0.03% of the galaxy explored. While the devs may say that they'd like players to map everything in sight, enforcing that would put them right back to the place that they identified that they needed to get away from to get players out exploring.

While suggestions to make exploration more involved, more skill based, whatever, hold merit, the fact is that FD would rather make it more accessible, have more players do it. The two Adams, when they introduced the FSS in concept and then demonstrated it in the first livestream were at pains to point out that it would be "intuitive, easy to use, and quick", which it is. They want players to get out there and explore, and to do that they feel that the way to encourage it is to make it easier and quicker, more accessible.

As far as players going through mapping the good stuff, and this was often the case before in terms of scanning, which illustrates that FD were absolutely right, those long SC journeys were simply too off putting for many players. On the flip side, with still far less than 1% of the galaxy explored, there's plenty of good stuff still to be found. The problem is you've got to sift through an awful lot of mundane stuff in order to find it... :)
I am sure that exploration is easier and quicker.

But why does it need to be easier and quicker?

So far I have identified a few kinds of exploration:
  • Discovering systems
  • Discovering worlds
  • Discovering content (bio, geo, rarity, ...)
Discovering systems I believe it's as quick as it was before. You enter a system, you get out.

Discovering worlds is probably much faster, only takes a few minutes once you've entered a system.

Discovering content is as fast as discovering worlds, you just have to wait for the blue thing to spin.


And some people (me included) believe that this briefness comes at the expense of fun, because it is a repetitive task.

I assume that ED wants us to investigate their game content thoroughly, but I don't know why it should be important that we discover every icy body. So what would it be like, if you entered a system, and you had a quick way of identifying if there were interesting worlds or content? And if there were, you could focus on them directly? Without scanning every single body?

This way explorers who wanted to go fast could go even faster in certain systems, because they didn't have to bother with all the unimportant worlds. They wouldn't need to discover everything unless they really wanted to. And they would have the possibility to make mistakes while they explore, that is either overlook something important, or assume that there was something important and be found wrong. I believe that the chance of error is a very important game dynamic.

Now, what consequences would this have? Would it make the exploration something more engaging? And if it did, would more people participate?
 
As far as exploration goes, the FSS targets the the things that FD identified were putting players off
How did they identify that? By asking on reddit? Being shot at really puts me off PvP perhaps i can a have a shield that means i dont ever have to worry about it? Traveling was part of exploration just as being shot at is part of PvP. There has been a rude total disregard for what was done before the FSS came along.

They want players to get out there and explore
Im going to assume they want all players to explore and not some small group of chosen. If they want players to explore then forcing the FSS on them was not the way to do it, infact the opposit cause its driven some players away. They are going to have to accept that they might have gotten it wrong. I dont believe they can, being so totally disconnected from the wider game cause they exist in their little bubble with the shills they like to hear. They have gone a long way towards ruining brabens creation and i suspect in the long term its not even going to make that much difference to the numbers. I suspect that plenty of people who gave their opinions didnt like exploration before and wont like it all that much after even of there is a short term uptake. Once you have made the big moneys there isnt really anything else to do that there wasnt before, if you arnt the explorer type you are still going to find it boring.
 
I am sure that exploration is easier and quicker.

But why does it need to be easier and quicker?

So far I have identified a few kinds of exploration:
  • Discovering systems
  • Discovering worlds
  • Discovering content (bio, geo, rarity, ...)
Discovering systems I believe it's as quick as it was before. You enter a system, you get out.

Discovering worlds is probably much faster, only takes a few minutes once you've entered a system.

Discovering content is as fast as discovering worlds, you just have to wait for the blue thing to spin.


And some people (me included) believe that this briefness comes at the expense of fun, because it is a repetitive task.

I assume that ED wants us to investigate their game content thoroughly, but I don't know why it should be important that we discover every icy body. So what would it be like, if you entered a system, and you had a quick way of identifying if there were interesting worlds or content? And if there were, you could focus on them directly? Without scanning every single body?

This way explorers who wanted to go fast could go even faster in certain systems, because they didn't have to bother with all the unimportant worlds. They wouldn't need to discover everything unless they really wanted to. And they would have the possibility to make mistakes while they explore, that is either overlook something important, or assume that there was something important and be found wrong. I believe that the chance of error is a very important game dynamic.

Now, what consequences would this have? Would it make the exploration something more engaging? And if it did, would more people participate?
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it's necessarily better, I'm just saying that (IMO obviously) there was a reason to why FD did what they did.

To a point, they have actually done what you suggest, just perhaps less subtly than you would like. It is very quick to scan systems, and once you have scanned a body using the FSS you then know whether it is worth visiting. Much depends on what a player finds interesting though, and there are plenty of observations that what is out there to find is underwhelming.

Basically, they've made it quick enough that a player might just as well scan every icy body while looking (for example) for geysers. And of course, there is the possibility of players missing things, because if they don't hang around waiting for POI's to be identified, they may well miss Raxxla - again. :)
 
How did they identify that? By asking on reddit? Being shot at really puts me off PvP perhaps i can a have a shield that means i dont ever have to worry about it? Traveling was part of exploration just as being shot at is part of PvP. There has been a rude total disregard for what was done before the FSS came along.
It's just my opinion Burke. FD are very good at metrics. SC has been a bugbear from the beginning and continues to be hence the introduction of SC assist. I think they have a very good idea why players didn't take to exploration, and the FSS was targeted to address those things.

Im going to assume they want all players to explore and not some small group of chosen. If they want players to explore then forcing the FSS on them was not the way to do it, infact the opposit cause its driven some players away. They are going to have to accept that they might have gotten it wrong. I dont believe they can, being so totally disconnected from the wider game cause they exist in their little bubble with the shills they like to hear. They have gone a long way towards ruining brabens creation and i suspect in the long term its not even going to make that much difference to the numbers. I suspect that plenty of people who gave their opinions didnt like exploration before and wont like it all that much after even of there is a short term uptake. Once you have made the big moneys there isnt really anything else to do that there wasnt before, if you arnt the explorer type you are still going to find it boring.
And you do know I am fully in favor of an optional ADS being put back in. I agree that they disenfranchised a type of explorer, and I don't see that they needed to do that, but it seems that they have quite a specific view on why people play the game, and apparently earning credits seems to be quite high on the list of reasons.

At this point, I kind of agree with Riverside that they simply didn't think anybody would miss the ADS reveal based upon the ease and speed of the FSS, and the fact that players could earn credits hand over fist using it, and in this sense it was an oversight to remove it. I also agree that once you've earned the credits to get to Elite and unless the stuff that they have (and will in the future) put in to be found is compelling enough to keep one occupied then players will indeed stop exploring.

At which point they will presumably revisit it.
 
As one who stands in the "I like the 'new' FSS" as well as "The ADS was fine" camp -basically I couldn't care less what tool is used to identify one's current destination - I've tried not to be too biased in my comments (I may not have succeeded) but have argued in the past that the removal of the ADS could be in preparation for 'something new' which the old scanner couldn't detect as that made eminent sense for the removal of the ADS.

This game (along with many MMO's) has to evolve to cater to the majority of players, the Dev's have to follow that course regardless of how I (I can only speak my opinion) feel about it, should the day come when it has divorced itself from the way I'd like to play, I'll stop playing - it won't bother the Dev's as thay have already had my small contribution and I have had a really cheap (in pence/hour) game and enjoyed it.

Change is inevitable, we only have two choices to make regarding them, complaining about them is a release, but unless the negative response is overwhelming they are unlikely to be reverted, such is life.
 
At which point they will presumably revisit it.
Im not hopeful. I see threads on the forum along the lines of "credits meaningless" cause everybody is so rich. I just annoys me that they took notice of people who play a space game and then complain about travel time. All the effort to make the galaxy and those systems and then selling it as such, what did anybody expect. If being able to go 300 times light speed and more wasnt enough they were probably in the wrong game :(
 
Discovering content is as fast as discovering worlds, you just have to wait for the blue thing to spin.


And some people (me included) believe that this briefness comes at the expense of fun, because it is a repetitive task.
It was effectively impossible for players to find things before, because there was no way to know if any of the billions of systems had something on the surface of one of the many planets and moons. How to find 'things'? Turn the graphics down so the object stood out more, and fly low over the surface. The whole surface. Of one huge planet.

You want to go back to that? In that system, fdev wouldnt have added the new things to discover, because, well why bother.

I'd really like it if you could actually go back and try the old system ...
 
It was effectively impossible for players to find things before, because there was no way to know if any of the billions of systems had something on the surface of one of the many planets and moons. How to find 'things'? Turn the graphics down so the object stood out more, and fly low over the surface.
It wasnt impossible, it was difficult. I had no idea you could turn the gfx down and i still found stuff, plenty of players did. It was a challenge to be mastered. Its a shame they didnt let players put a name tag on the landmarks tbh.
 
The only problem with the exploration system now is that there isn't enough to find. The idea was that they could add more things, rumoured stuff, and feed out new things.
 
It wasnt impossible, it was difficult. I had no idea you could turn the gfx down and i still found stuff, plenty of players did. It was a challenge to be mastered. Its a shame they didnt let players put a name tag on the landmarks tbh.
I accept it wasn't impossible, I'm exaggerating, but people asked for fdev to add more to exploration, it was a bare-bones-wild-west-prospecting-needle-in-a-haystack process (catchy, I like it). Now it's possible and even fun for a wider section of the players.

They just need to add more.
 
I just think the OP is asking for the bare-bones-wild-west-prospecting-needle-in-a-haystack process back again, without perhaps realising what it actually was. The hardcore python 'you had it easy' veterans might want to go back, but I suspect there are a lot more players now doing exploration that would never have bothered, and going back to a system where it was very difficult to find anything on surfaces ... no.
 
I want it back :) Im trying to think of a good analogy and probably failing but it was like the grind for the special mount in wow or the special wepaon in diablo2. Some people played forever and never got that stuff.

Edit: or getting special tech in eve online. Laying hands on one of those spiky sansha (sp?) ships was damn near impossible. People shouldnt get what they want just cause they complained it was too hard :)
 
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Im not hopeful. I see threads on the forum along the lines of "credits meaningless" cause everybody is so rich. I just annoys me that they took notice of people who play a space game and then complain about travel time. All the effort to make the galaxy and those systems and then selling it as such, what did anybody expect. If being able to go 300 times light speed and more wasnt enough they were probably in the wrong game :(
One of the biggest problems for the game is the size and scale of the gameworld. And anybody who had the temerity to suggest that things be made more accessible was in for a rough ride here on the fora. ;)

But it does seem to me that the sensible way to move forward would be to allow for different approaches to gameplay, so when players become jaded with one approach they can try something different.

Not sure how easy it is for FD to make something both complex and nuanced and at the same time quick and easy. In some ways that's down to the player to do using different tools and methods. Take as an example how Darkfyre99 gets a feeling of depth and immersion (and has explained her (?) approach in detail on the forums) using the FSS while many other players are delighted with it for the opposite reason, that it makes exploration quicker and easier for them. And I say that with great respect for Darkfyre99 not for a second suggesting that being able to do that is a bad thing.

Hence why I believe that putting in an optional ADS module, providing an alternative way to approach exploration can only be a positive step.
 
Pathetic, whiny, self-entitled post threads like this one are the main reason I spend almost no time in the forums anymore. Truth is that the majority of the community are out using the new mechanics on the Distant Worlds 2 expedition or-like me-are forging their own paths on their first ever exploration trips. Meanwhile, the exploration haters (who always hated it, even before they saw it) are left here to moan & complain in their little Echo Chamber.
 
The only problem with the exploration system now is that there isn't enough to find. The idea was that they could add more things, rumoured stuff, and feed out new things.
I think you make a decent point about having more to find (the so far unpopulated 'rumoured' items etc) but the stuff that was added is arguably too easy to find with the mapping/probing mechanism turning what was a massive challenge (that I rose to) into a chore and a frustratingly busy nav panel to have to scroll through.

They added quite a bit of stuff to find in 3.3 on top of what was already there, and I think personally I was able to consume it far more quickly than their art team is able to churn it out. After a few weeks (a few dozen hours of in-game time) I had already effectively consumed the 3.3 exploration addons' content and was not left wanting more. Whereas before it was too hard but I was motivated to keep going back out to search because the number of systems and the search region within each system is so large. The 3.3 update feels like it was aimed at players happy to find anything rather than players looking for specifically something unusual or unexpected.

Confirming there is nothing there now takes too long, but if there is something there it's too easy. It feels off balance.
 
It was effectively impossible for players to find things before, because there was no way to know if any of the billions of systems had something on the surface of one of the many planets and moons. How to find 'things'? Turn the graphics down so the object stood out more, and fly low over the surface. The whole surface. Of one huge planet.

You want to go back to that? In that system, fdev wouldnt have added the new things to discover, because, well why bother.

I'd really like it if you could actually go back and try the old system ...
No, as I wrote earlier, I agree that the FSS was an improvement over the ADS, and I can see how it was necessary. Even though I never tried the ADS, I understand that it made finding new content impossible without probing everything, so it's really not what I'm looking for.

I just think the OP is asking for the bare-bones-wild-west-prospecting-needle-in-a-haystack process back again, without perhaps realising what it actually was. The hardcore python 'you had it easy' veterans might want to go back, but I suspect there are a lot more players now doing exploration that would never have bothered, and going back to a system where it was very difficult to find anything on surfaces ... no.
No, no. I'm asking for a fun way to find that content, because I find that what I have now is disengaging.

FDev has added content, so of course they want us to find it and enjoy it and it shouldn't be a pain to look for it.

I wish that they opted for a way to make the research fun, to make it a game in itself, and I believe that if they did they would have also achieved their goal of making more people engage in it. However, I've learned that to many players exploration with the FSS is fun as it is, so maybe I'm just not doing it right, or I'm not looking for the right things.

I mean, to me the research had to offer a challenge per se. Not an overwhelming challenge, but a challenge that's fun to overcome. Just like a game. There is some games that are just about exploration, and what do they do? They give a hint, a trace, a path to sniff. But I'm not sure that such mechanics could apply at a galactic scale. And then the game is probably there already, I just have to look for the right things.


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then what's fun comes down to personal preference of course, so if I don't find this kind of exploration fun, that's fine, it's not like I'll force it on me. There's plenty else to do, a huge game FDev has made. :)
 
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Easy to criticise.a mechanic, of course, but those criticisms carry much more weight when you can clearly ennunciate how you would want it improved. For example, I eventually want the probe mechanic to be used as a means to narrow down the location of smaller-more transient-points of interest, then have a Wave Scanner kick in above our scanners-at a certain altitude-to allow us to track the exact locations of said PoI's. Likewise, I would like for the PWS to be useable in the scanning of planetary surfaces to find these PoI's more quickly.

That said, though, the mechanics we got in December are orders of magnitude better than what we had before, & I have made extensive use of them in my trip out towards the Rim.
 
Where is the exploration? Have you checked out your window? Last I remember excellent vistas can't be scanned for. Neither can a FSS scanner experience finding rare oddities in deep space for you, especially if you found one yourself.
 
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