The game is so ripe for Atmospheric Landing!

dxm55

Banned
Helium (or anything else) can't be lighter than vacuum.

I was comparing to planets without any atmospheres (you even quote that part!), a condition we meet all the time in ED as all planets we land on have no atmospheres. Comparing to "the density of our atmosphere" is irrelevant in this context.
You made a lot of words but still didn't answer my question: How do you explain falling faster in helium than in no atmospheres (cause that was the context)? Which was at least what your first comment ("A helium balloon floats because it's lighter than air, which means the density of our atmosphere") suggested.
I didn't say an object would fall faster in helium than no atmosphere. You did right?

Because at any given gravity, an object will always fall the fastest in a vacuum. There's no drag, nothing getting in the way of it interacting with the planet's mass.
In an atmosphere you have drag/friction, and then you also have lift, if the shape of your object happens to generate it at a certain velocity. And towards the surface, you have ground effect.

But the basic notion is, there is fluid in the way. Air is a fluid, and the denser it is, the more resistance you encounter. There is virtually no resistance in the vacuum of space.

Imagine swinging your arm in an arc while you're standing up in your room, then try swinging that arm while you're submerged in a pool.
Where would it move faster?

Again, basic elementary school science.
 

dxm55

Banned
That would be the realistic thing to happen. Our ships do not need to aerobreak as they are not travelling at orbital speeds. But I suspect there will be some kind of animation with the glide mechanic.
Possibly. I see what you're getting at.

The glide threshold is 2.5km/s, which would be 9000kph, or around Mach 7.2 depending on altitude/air density, unlike the 7800+ m/s re-entry speeds of the Shuttle.
I guess shields would compensate for the re-entry heat.

A possible re-entry mechanic would be heat management perhaps? Some ships might need to spend a heatsink.

Other than that, I hope that FD takes into account aerodynamics and disables FA-off in the atmosphere. I can't imagine flipping your ship about at anything above 100m/s. The aerodynamic stress should break your ship apart.... I don't care if it's a Vulture or Corvette.

Or perhaps just allow FA-Off and let people learn the hard way. Yesshhhh.... I would love to see that. CMDRs disintegrating in mid-air due to stupid maneuvers...
 
With gravity at 0.76G and an atmosphere of 97.6% helium and 2.4% neon, you would float in the atmosphere like a hot air balloon while glowing bright red, never making it to the surface....

Just saying....
Err I think this is wrong way round.
You'd be more likely to sink like a stone. Helium Is one of the lightest gasses, your ship is full of nitrogen and oxygen both a lot heavier.
And .75g is 3/4 earth G, so you'd only be a bit lighter than you are now.
 
Possibly. I see what you're getting at.

The glide threshold is 2.5km/s, which would be 9000kph, or around Mach 7.2 depending on altitude/air density, unlike the 7800+ m/s re-entry speeds of the Shuttle.
I guess shields would compensate for the re-entry heat.

A possible re-entry mechanic would be heat management perhaps? Some ships might need to spend a heatsink.

Other than that, I hope that FD takes into account aerodynamics and disables FA-off in the atmosphere. I can't imagine flipping your ship about at anything above 100m/s. The aerodynamic stress should break your ship apart.... I don't care if it's a Vulture or Corvette.

Or perhaps just allow FA-Off and let people learn the hard way. Yesshhhh.... I would love to see that. CMDRs disintegrating in mid-air due to stupid maneuvers...
Yup. Re-entry speeds are 18,000mph/29,000kph. It is scarily fast with no real means of thrust or any serious control.

With ED ships maybe some heat management is needed, but I would think our shields would be able to handle it reasonable well. And as we have continual thrust we wouldn't have to worry about bouncing off the atmosphere.
 
"Adding new gmeplay" would be trivial, just give us some bases on inhabited atmospheric worlds. We'll visit them occasionally, just as we occasionally visit planetary bases on airless worlds now. Visiting orbiting stations will still be generally quicker and more convenient, but you might want to buy/sell a specific commodity or gain rep with a specific faction.

Apart from visiting places I can't currently visit, I think the main long-term advantage is that we can finally see (and investigate) alien life in abundance, rather than FDev having to invent a few ridiculously implausible life-forms that somehow evolved in a vacuum. Less of that malarkey please, let's see life where it belongs, on atmospheric planets. That could lead to new mission types, with scientists, zoos, collectors, and pharmaceutical companies all wanting samples.
 
I didn't say an object would fall faster in helium than no atmosphere. You did right?
I never questioned your observations below nor is anything of that unknown to me but your first post in this thread sound like you'd want to say exactly that. Must be a misunderstanding then, probably my weak English? If that's the case please take my apologize.
Because at any given gravity, an object will always fall the fastest in a vacuum. There's no drag, nothing getting in the way of it interacting with the planet's mass.
In an atmosphere you have drag/friction, and then you also have lift, if the shape of your object happens to generate it at a certain velocity. And towards the surface, you have ground effect.

But the basic notion is, there is fluid in the way. Air is a fluid, and the denser it is, the more resistance you encounter. There is virtually no resistance in the vacuum of space.

Imagine swinging your arm in an arc while you're standing up in your room, then try swinging that arm while you're submerged in a pool.
Where would it move faster?

Again, basic elementary school science.
 
Yet there are people who claim atmospheric flight would provide no added gameplay - it would be the best gameplay upgrade. Especially if FDev would take the pain to tailor flight models according to aerodynamics. Nothing scientific, but ZP ships should handle well, while Lakon ships should be a bit hapless, etc..
I think it would add more practical gameplay than space legs and I'd like to see atmos landings first
 
Yet there are people who claim atmospheric flight would provide no added gameplay - it would be the best gameplay upgrade. Especially if FDev would take the pain to tailor flight models according to aerodynamics. Nothing scientific, but ZP ships should handle well, while Lakon ships should be a bit hapless, etc..
My issue at the moment is not the gameplay, there is plenty in the game, but reasons to do that gameplay. More meaningful reasons to do gameplay is what is needed whether we get atmospherics or space legs in the next expansion.
 
My issue at the moment is not the gameplay, there is plenty in the game, but reasons to do that gameplay. More meaningful reasons to do gameplay is what is needed whether we get atmospherics or space legs in the next expansion.
Agreed, though such a reason should be an integral component according to what I'd consider 'gameplay', at least a major aspect of any decent game design. It's this modern 'sandbox plague' that has more or less wiped out such reasons while providing a cheap apologize for developers to not taking care about what I consider one of the most important aspects of any game. And certainly not a trivial one if done right.
 
With gravity at 0.76G and an atmosphere of 97.6% helium and 2.4% neon, you would float in the atmosphere like a hot air balloon while glowing bright red, never making it to the surface....

Just saying....
wait a minute... how is the atmosphere staying on that planet? Shouldn't it all just float away into space or something?
 
Low-g planets can't hold onto much of an atmosphere, especially one consisting of light gases such as hydrogen and helium.

Two factors can help: extreme cold (slows the molecules) and/or orbiting something massive. Titan has a thick atmosphere (though of heavier gases) partly because it's fairly cold, and also partly because gas molecules leaving Titan tend to orbit Saturn for awhile until they fall onto Titan again.
 
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