Simple Solution to Gankers versus Carebears

Unless I missed the post, he said PvE open wouldn't work as people would ram each other. That's both an utterly ridiculous reason against PvE open and in NO WAY explains how it would ruin someone's PvP open experience. If I missed another explanation, please advise.
If I was a victim to one of Ian's scenarios I'd say my Open experience had been pretty thoroughly ruined. I suspect many others, if not most, would agree.

Surely this is simple to understand.
 
This is a typical frequent misconception. Gankers are probably better than you regardless what ship you're in . Because they do combat all the time. They engage with competitive PvP amongst each other as well as trashing carebears. Simply put they have the skill, you have the pointless moral outrage and excuses
That's an unfounded claim. I'm simply applying logic. The only rationale against PvE open I can muster is they want weaker ships and skill levels to attack. That implies to me they aren't highly skilled at all. Of course it's a sweeping generalization, but one founded on their own views and behaviour. Claiming "they have the skill" is simply a statement pulled out of thin air. Some may, some may not. All are engaging in anti-social behaviour.
 
If I was a victim to one of Ian's scenarios I'd say my Open experience had been pretty thoroughly ruined. I suspect many others, if not most, would agree.

Surely this is simple to understand.
Which of Ian's scenarios would ruin your PvP open experience and in what way?

I'm not trying to catch you out. I'm just trying to understand your view. You keep making claims and then becoming unpleasant when I ask you to give some rationale for them.
 
Here's some thoughts I've had for a while:
  1. The problems might largely be resolved if the consequences of PvP (especially unfair ganks) were much much more severe UNLESS 1) a dual was greed upon or 2) the fight was firmly within the context of affiliation with powers and even factions in conflict (similar to but different from PowerPlay).
  2. If instancing wasn't such a problem and more players could co-exist in the same instance ganking at common locations might be largely mitigated by the number of players who could come to the aid of a player who was getting ganged up on.
These ideas are things which would require a lot of changes to the game so I don't see them every happening.
Duelling is a very common solution to online games...and a sensible one.
 
I'm simply asking questions. The fact you have proven incapable of justifying your own position isn't my fault. Perhaps your time would be better spent considering whether there is really any rationale basis for your view on this topic instead of getting angry with me for being the mechanism that shows them to be fallacious. I haven't made any assertion in a while. I've just asked you to explain your's. You should question why your response is one of anger and confrontation instead of offering an explanation.
 
That's an unfounded claim. I'm simply applying logic. The only rationale against PvE open I can muster is they want weaker ships and skill levels to attack. That implies to me they aren't highly skilled at all. Of course it's a sweeping generalization, but one founded on their own views and behaviour. Claiming "they have the skill" is simply a statement pulled out of thin air. Some may, some may not. All are engaging in anti-social behaviour.
What part of logic repeatedly dismisses the points people are bringing up out of hand? I don't understand how things like immersion, fairness, and the spirit of the game being ruined as things so easily swept aside.

It seems like you have a very narrow view of what PvP can be in this game, never mind the people that partake in it.

Which of Ian's scenarios would ruin your PvP open experience and in what way?

I'm not trying to catch you out. I'm just trying to understand your view. You keep making claims and then becoming unpleasant when I ask you to give some rationale for them.
All of them for the reasons I listed above. Go back and read his post as you've admitted to having not done that then get back to me.

I'm simply asking questions. The fact you have proven incapable of justifying your own position isn't my fault. Perhaps your time would be better spent considering whether there is really any rationale basis for your view on this topic instead of getting angry with me for being the mechanism that shows them to be fallacious. I haven't made any assertion in a while. I've just asked you to explain your's. You should question why your response is one of anger and confrontation instead of offering an explanation.
In informal discussions like this it's generally better to be liked than to be right. Pounding on logic like you do really only worked for Mr. Spock, buddy.

You're dealing with people, not Rubik's Cubes.
 
What part of logic repeatedly dismisses the points people are bringing up out of hand? I don't understand how things like immersion, fairness, and the spirit of the game being ruined as things so easily swept aside.

It seems like you have a very narrow view of what PvP can be in this game, never mind the people that partake in it.



All of them for the reasons I listed above. Go back and read his post as you've admitted to having not done that then get back to me.



In informal discussions like this it's generally better to be liked than to be right. Pounding on logic like you do really only worked for Mr. Spock, buddy.

You're dealing with people, not Rubik's Cubes.
I'm just asking you a question mate. Yet again, you haven't answered. It's demonstrably obvious you aren't going to be able to so it's best to end the discussion here. In summary, when asked to explain how providing a PvE open mode for those that want it would affect those in PvP, there has been no answer, explanation or example provided. I think it's obvious what the conclusion is.

(P.s. I don't care if you like me. If being asked to explain your own words is enough to make you go in a huff and take personal issue, that's your cross to bear.)
 
And once again, I ask you - how is it destructive to the current open system? People need to become accustomed to providing some sort of basis or reason for their claims.
Because it would narrow the range of player types who would play in standard open to just combat players... all the non combat players would be in open PvE, so activities like piracy which rely on there being enough traders/miners in open, would be ruined.

Also consider that open PvE would be full of indirect griefing such as ramming, deliberate kill stealing, speed-limit trolling, Thargoid kiting etc... it would be a huge salt-fest.
 
I'm just asking you a question mate. Yet again, you haven't answered. It's demonstrably obvious you aren't going to be able to so it's best to end the discussion here. In summary, when asked to explain how providing a PvE open mode for those that want it would affect those in PvP, there has been no answer, explanation or example provided. I think it's obvious what the conclusion is.

(P.s. I don't care if you like me. If being asked to explain your own words is enough to make you go in a huff and take personal issue, that's your cross to bear.)
I've literally answered your question several times now. I'll try again one more time.

Open PvE would lead to changes, which Ian only scratched the surface of, that would ruin my immersion, sense of fairness, and what I consider the essence of Elite's Open mode.

In short, it would no longer be Elite.

Is this answer clear enough or not?
 
Because it would narrow the range of player types who would play in standard open to just combat players... all the non combat players would be in open PvE, so activities like piracy which rely on there being enough traders/miners in open, would be ruined.

Also consider that open PvE would be full of indirect griefing such as ramming, deliberate kill stealing, speed-limit trolling, Thargoid kiting etc... it would be a huge salt-fest.
If we thought the hacker Beluga blocking Jameson Memorial was bad, just imagine the possibilities.
 
I usually fly a multi-purpose ship. It gets tweaked a little for particular tasks, but it generally has good shields and other defences. Even dedicated ganker builds can’t kill my usual ships if I’m paying attention. It won’t win a PvP fight and I might have some repair bills, but I’ll live to fight another day.

But people want to be able to max out profits and don’t have any of the systems needed to survive a fight. They get killed quickly — but then they took a big risk for moderate rewards.

I don’t think flexibility is a design flaw.
 
Again, you've asserted it will subtract features from open, but not explained how. So please explain what it subtracts from open pvp?
You're asking what subtracting PvP subtracts from open PvP? Well, okay. I'll bite.

It subtracts PvP.

"Open" is the complete game. Subtracting PvP- a significant feature, in my view- turns it into something else. And whatever you want to call that something else- safespace, nursery, tutorial mode- it isn't open. Not by a longshot.
 
I've literally answered your question several times now. I'll try again one more time.

Open PvE would lead to changes, which Ian only scratched the surface of, that would ruin my immersion, sense of fairness, and what I consider the essence of Elite's Open mode.

In short, it would no longer be Elite.

Is this answer clear enough or not?
How are you finding this so difficult? "It would lead to changes" isn't an answer. How are those changes bad for you? If i'm in open pve, you won't see me and i won't see you. If i'm in solo, it's EXACTLY THE SAME. So how on earth does this affect you? You carry on as before. I get my new option. Come on mate, this is farcical now.

"It will lead to changes somehow. Somehow that will be bad for me. Somehow. Can't say what but I know if you're playing in a mode that doesn't affect me i'll not like it."
 
You're asking what subtracting PvP subtracts from open PvP? Well, okay. I'll bite.

It subtracts PvP.

"Open" is the complete game. Subtracting PvP- a significant feature, in my view- turns it into something else. And whatever you want to call that something else- safespace, nursery, tutorial mode- it isn't open. Not by a longshot.
At no point has ANYONE suggested removing PvP from open PvP. I'm starting to see how these threads go out of control now. There are A LOT of people who seem to find processing very basic information nearly impossible.
 
At no point has ANYONE suggested removing PvP from open PvP. I'm starting to see how these threads go out of control now. There are A LOT of people who seem to find processing very basic information nearly impossible.
I'm going to make this as clear as I can: you have suggested removing PvP from open and rebranding it "PvE open" as a separate game mode. I have pointed out that doing such would violate both the spirit and traits of what makes open open.

If you can't handle the idea of human adversity, solo and PG are there for you. But don't call for a neutered version of open in a game like Elite.
 
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