Reduce Module and Ship Transfer Times

My point being that to arrive at a location, the player first has to decide to travel there - and in which ship.



If players choose to jump-taxi-travel then summon and log-out that's their choice. The intended outcome is fulfilled - a player can summon a ship (or module) to their current location. What does not happen is rapid movement of ships that can't travel very quickly at all (or even cannot make the journey when a player is at the helm due to insufficient jump range to plot a route).

Jump range is one of the compromises related to particular vessel optimisations - a consequence of choice.
I've made my opinion known as a suggestion. I already know how it currently exists, how it used to be and a few opinions on the matter. It's still my suggestion to reduce the transfer time for ships (especially ships in the bubble). Priority shipping exists IRL. It's not a novel concept.
 
If it was the former then some ships would be unable to be transferred at all due to insufficient jump range to be able to plan a route.
Ok then those ships should have the tear down time included. If I wanted to get a boat across mainland I couldn't hire a captain to sail it there but if I wanted to get a boat across a body of water I could.

I see the problem, at least the perception of the problem. If you build a ship and sacrifice LY you lose nothing if you can instantly summon it by using your fast ship to travel instead. So ships that cannot jump on their own to where you are should not be able to get there magically by using jumping as a concept, however ships that can jump there should be able to get there. I'm not looking to build a risk free method, but to reduce wait time. I am more of a vagabond in the game and don't have a home system. Someone please consider the homeless when you make these decisions.
 
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I just paid 3.3 bn for moving some ships to Colonia:
https://s.orbis.zone/2rbohttps://s.orbis.zone/2rbphttps://s.orbis.zone/2rbqhttps://s.orbis.zone/2rbrhttps://s.orbis.zone/2rbmhttps://s.orbis.zone/2rbs
From-ToExtreme MeasuresDelta FlyerMine your own BusinessExtreme MinerTaxi ServiceCargo PodTotalTime
Andhantja-Rohini469.016.816395.171.64839.747.672235.809.3127.318.9401.147.064.38820h 58m
Rohini-Gandharvi494.563.424416.669.37641.909.936248.637.5527.494.50434.598.8401.209.274.79222h 6m
Gandharvi-RatraII399.490.752336.570.75233.853.536200.840.6726.053.98427.947.842976.809.69617h 52m
3.333.148.876

I just hope there was a way to "push" ships prior to leaving, too. That would be a real QoL improvement.
 
There's rarely an issue if you plan ahead, and maybe pick your ships carefully (or even build specific ships).

Prior to the planned jump of the Gnosis into the Cone Sector, I'd identified the Orion Nebula Tourist Centre as the nearest shipyard. So I flew my Cutter there, then booked transfers of several much cheaper ships and went to bed. Next day I was able to complete the trip out to the Gnosis in an exploration ship, with a small fleet on standby nearby (well, 700ly, but closer than the Bubble) if I needed them... which I did.

And when I decided to combine DW2 with an expedition to Colonia, I transferred several ships using Rohini and Gandharvi, and even built a special low-budget warship to unlock Mel Brandon because transferring my T10 would have been too expensive, so now I have a cheap Crusader I can transfer anywhere.
 
There's rarely an issue if you plan ahead, and maybe pick your ships carefully (or even build specific ships).

Prior to the planned jump of the Gnosis into the Cone Sector, I'd identified the Orion Nebula Tourist Centre as the nearest shipyard. So I flew my Cutter there, then booked transfers of several much cheaper ships and went to bed. Next day I was able to complete the trip out to the Gnosis in an exploration ship, with a small fleet on standby nearby (well, 700ly, but closer than the Bubble) if I needed them... which I did.

And when I decided to combine DW2 with an expedition to Colonia, I transferred several ships using Rohini and Gandharvi, and even built a special low-budget warship to unlock Mel Brandon because transferring my T10 would have been too expensive, so now I have a cheap Crusader I can transfer anywhere.
None of it is an issue if FDev is cool with people using "leave the game" as part of the content. Freedom of choice coupled with lack of other desirable options often leads to choosing to just close the game. I want to not close the game, but to be able to continue playing in the role/manner I choose.

If it doesn't happen then that's ok too. Same with many of the suggestions.
 
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I just paid 3.3 bn for moving some ships to Colonia. I just hope there was a way to "push" ships prior to leaving, too. That would be a real QoL improvement.
I think the QoL Improvement was already added. See people did not want a PvP to be able to use an Explorer type ship to get to a location super fast. Then summon their combat ship in a short amount of time to cause havoc to other players.
 
I think the QoL Improvement was already added. See people did not want a PvP to be able to use an Explorer type ship to get to a location super fast. Then summon their combat ship in a short amount of time to cause havoc to other players.
If everyone can do it there's no imbalance though. It's not like only PvPers can do it.
 
If it was the former then some ships would be unable to be transferred at all due to insufficient jump range to be able to plan a route.
Which is why I'd have both options. You either hire a pilot, assign an NPC crew or book a megaship. Already more interesting than the same bland option.
 
Which is why I'd have both options. You either hire a pilot, assign an NPC crew or book a megaship. Already more interesting than the same bland option.
Which is a to be put on hold for 1.5 hours as if that's some immerision generating gameplay instead of just a grind wall.
 
I think the QoL Improvement was already added. See people did not want a PvP to be able to use an Explorer type ship to get to a location super fast. Then summon their combat ship in a short amount of time to cause havoc to other players.
Yeah, I never understood the logic there.

1) Within the bubble it'll be there in 30 minutes anyway, and generally the hotspots sites were either permanent (engineers) or lasted a week (CGs, Powerplay) so it didn't make a lot of difference
2) For killing poorly shielded explorers and traders (and escaping from PvPers) a perfectly deadly ship can have a >50LY basic range anyway.
3) Even for Colonia once you've transferred the ship once, it's then there and ready for use permanently afterwards

(And things like Guardian FSD boosters, engineering being made much easier in 3.0, the Kraits, etc. have only made those even more true since then)

There are good reasons not to have instant ship transfer, but I don't understand why anyone thought that was one of them.
 
Since the current system was implemented after consulting the player base I really don't see the point in this thread. You got what was decided upon, live with it.
 
I considered that, but going by that line of reasoning no engineering changes should happen since engineering wasn't even in the game before Horizons and there should be no material traders (to keep space feeling big). There should be no interstellar factions for cashing in bounties.

The game should be about playing the game, not in waiting. That's a really poor "content" offering if wait time is being used to create the illusion of expanse. Travel wait time is quite different, as you're engaged in what you're doing. Who here is engaged in watching the transfer timer?

How is the size illusion handled from a game play perspective anyhow? You take a mission to deliver cargo and there are already pirates waiting for you the moment you enter SC. You come out of a mining site in the middle of nowhere and there are pirates waiting for you. These ships didn't exist until you got cargo in your hold. They show up magically in the ring anywhere you happen to be. That's just part of the game play offering, risk vs reward. If it's about keeping it real, ok... let me put my modules in my Cutter cargo bay and haul them. Also, why do I have a collective storage limit when these items are scattered across the bubble? Do they talk to each other and collude to limit me?

So you have to plan ahead a bit, noone is forcing you to wait, that is a choice made entirely by yourself.

So you CHOOSE a gameplay to take a "bubble taxi ship" to a new location, then use the ship transfer option to move your other ship here, one that most likely have a much lower jump range. And then you complain about the wait time.


You could fly your ship that you transfer to the current location. Then there would be sitting around waiting for the transfer times... The most common reason people do not this, is because the other ship usually have a terrible jump coupled with that they do not have a fuel scoop. And this back in the days, made designing combat ship another dimension, as do you expect to move it around or not. As you had to fly it there. So just the most "dedicated" people tended to move their fully outfitted compbat ships around much.


And with module transfer, it is very feasible to swap out 2-3 modules to in most cases drastically improve the jump range on any ship build with a low jump range, get to the location a few jump slower than the "bubble taxi" and then request the swapped modules and innstead of sitting and starring at the transfer time, use your ship with a bit of caution while the modules are being transferred, and if he outfitting have stock versions of the modules you swapped out, put those in....


So there are several options, already available, and you can choose to use any of these. So the one that is forcing you to wait is you.
 
So you have to plan ahead a bit, noone is forcing you to wait, that is a choice made entirely by yourself.

So you CHOOSE a gameplay to take a "bubble taxi ship" to a new location, then use the ship transfer option to move your other ship here, one that most likely have a much lower jump range. And then you complain about the wait time.


You could fly your ship that you transfer to the current location. Then there would be sitting around waiting for the transfer times... The most common reason people do not this, is because the other ship usually have a terrible jump coupled with that they do not have a fuel scoop. And this back in the days, made designing combat ship another dimension, as do you expect to move it around or not. As you had to fly it there. So just the most "dedicated" people tended to move their fully outfitted compbat ships around much.


And with module transfer, it is very feasible to swap out 2-3 modules to in most cases drastically improve the jump range on any ship build with a low jump range, get to the location a few jump slower than the "bubble taxi" and then request the swapped modules and innstead of sitting and starring at the transfer time, use your ship with a bit of caution while the modules are being transferred, and if he outfitting have stock versions of the modules you swapped out, put those in....


So there are several options, already available, and you can choose to use any of these. So the one that is forcing you to wait is you.
Let me address your comments one at a time:

1. Choice is a poor excuse for shoddy content. Everything in the game that we engage in we do so of our own free will.
2. The bubble taxi scenario doesn't fit my game play style. I play in Solo or private group 100% of the time so I have no need to build a low LY Frankenship. All of my FSDs are engineered for maximum range. It's a mistake to attribute everyone's motives to the same narrow band of common motives.
3. All my ships have A rated fuel scoops.
4. I am well aware of the current model. The suggestion forum is here for suggestions. I made a suggestion. It's not a complaint.
5. You never offered a reason why transfer times should take as long as they do, only responded as if I am not doing it right. I am doing it right.

This is a suggestion forum. I made a suggestion that ship and module transfer times be reduced. It's about having engaging experiences in the game, not creating artificial "reality" by arbitrary wait times for game actions that don't have any background explanation to how they occur. If we're ok with insta-travel after we suicide into a planet after killing skimmers (wow that reality eh?) then reduced ship transfer times should be a relatively lower "suspend disbelief" hurdle.

f you have a counter argument as to why transfer time reduction would break your immersion or somehow negatively affect gameplay, I'm open to considering it. If it comes down to "PvPers want to ship gimmicky builds instantly to grief and gank at CGs", I get that concern and it's legit. Let's just not pretend it's about realism and choice.
 
Let me address your comments one at a time:

1. Choice is a poor excuse for shoddy content. Everything in the game that we engage in we do so of our own free will.
2. The bubble taxi scenario doesn't fit my game play style. I play in Solo or private group 100% of the time so I have no need to build a low LY Frankenship. All of my FSDs are engineered for maximum range. It's a mistake to attribute everyone's motives to the same narrow band of common motives.
3. All my ships have A rated fuel scoops.
4. I am well aware of the current model. The suggestion forum is here for suggestions. I made a suggestion. It's not a complaint.
5. You never offered a reason why transfer times should take as long as they do, only responded as if I am not doing it right. I am doing it right.

This is a suggestion forum. I made a suggestion that ship and module transfer times be reduced. It's about having engaging experiences in the game, not creating artificial "reality" by arbitrary wait times for game actions that don't have any background explanation to how they occur. If we're ok with insta-travel after we suicide into a planet after killing skimmers (wow that reality eh?) then reduced ship transfer times should be a relatively lower "suspend disbelief" hurdle.

f you have a counter argument as to why transfer time reduction would break your immersion or somehow negatively affect gameplay, I'm open to considering it. If it comes down to "PvPers want to ship gimmicky builds instantly to grief and gank at CGs", I get that concern and it's legit. Let's just not pretend it's about realism and choice.
1. What shoddy content? If anything, transfer times makes perfect sense to show that the galaxy is big, and moving around takes time. What is nest shoddy content, travel times between systems/stations/etc? Why should a transfer service magically bew able to move a ship faster than you can travel the same distance? That does not make ANY sense.

2. What has the chosen gamem ode anything todo with this? And if you now now "good" jump range on your ships, why do you not simply fly them there in the first place then?

3. OK, so why are you ranting waiting for your ships to arrive then? Why did you not fly the desired ship there to begin with?

4. And I am allowed to argue for or against your suggestion.

5. Why should I offer a reason? But it makes sense to have a transfer times. why should your ship in trasnsit arrive ALOT faster than it would take you to fly there? Why do you not offer a good reason other than I wanti it now reasons. Are you doing it right? Sofar I do not think I have seen anything how you actually are doing this. and it should be pretty obvious that I was generic in my response about why people want instant transfers...


You are open to considerations? ROFL..
 
1. What shoddy content? If anything, transfer times makes perfect sense to show that the galaxy is big, and moving around takes time. What is nest shoddy content, travel times between systems/stations/etc? Why should a transfer service magically bew able to move a ship faster than you can travel the same distance? That does not make ANY sense.
I am going to answer your questions using things we have already stated for the sake of parsimony:

Shoddy content and "sense of size"/slippery slope argument about normal SC travel:

"That's a really poor "content" offering if wait time is being used to create the illusion of expanse. Travel wait time is quite different, as you're engaged in what you're doing. Who here is engaged in watching the transfer timer?" -Schmack post 10

Did I suggest transfer being faster than actual travel:

"It should take as long to transfer as it would take the longest LY ship in the game to reach that station."-Schmack post 1
2. What has the chosen game mode anything to do with this? And if you now now "good" jump range on your ships, why do you not simply fly them there in the first place then?
What it has to do with game mode:

"I think the QoL Improvement was already added. See people did not want a PvP to be able to use an Explorer type ship to get to a location super fast. Then summon their combat ship in a short amount of time to cause havoc to other players." -Lestat post 26


Why didn't I fly the ship to begin with:

"Since the in-game tools for finding interesting things to do are basically non-existent, when you stumble upon something and you have a couple hours to kill, you want to move to that role. Without your role specific ship/modules you're just out of luck. You'll need to wait the 1.5 hours real time to be able to continue. So you either abandon that goal for the time or you just quit the session. " -Schmack post 1
3. OK, so why are you ranting waiting for your ships to arrive then? Why did you not fly the desired ship there to begin with?
"Since the in-game tools for finding interesting things to do are basically non-existent, when you stumble upon something and you have a couple hours to kill, you want to move to that role. Without your role specific ship/modules you're just out of luck. You'll need to wait the 1.5 hours real time to be able to continue. So you either abandon that goal for the time or you just quit the session." -Schmack post 1
4. And I am allowed to argue for or against your suggestion.
"If you have a counter argument as to why transfer time reduction would break your immersion or somehow negatively affect gameplay, I'm open to considering it. If it comes down to "PvPers want to ship gimmicky builds instantly to grief and gank at CGs", I get that concern and it's legit. Let's just not pretend it's about realism and choice." -Schmack post 33
5. Why should I offer a reason? But it makes sense to have a transfer times. why should your ship in trasnsit arrive ALOT faster than it would take you to fly there? Why do you not offer a good reason other than I wanti it now reasons. Are you doing it right? Sofar I do not think I have seen anything how you actually are doing this. and it should be pretty obvious that I was generic in my response about why people want instant transfers...
You're asking me questions as evidence to support "it makes sense to have transfer times" instead of explaining how it makes sense. I never said it would transfer a lot faster.

But here's a scenario for you just to show consistency:

You travel 300Ly to fetch a ship. You get interdicted in the system where your ship resides, and you explode during confrontation. You now have the choice to magically appear in the same ship at your original station. Your ship was magically recreated at a system that doesn't offer them, with modules they don't have materials to build, and you are magically sitting inside of it. All this for the low low price of the rebuy.

It would cost exponentially more to have the ship transferred than to just blow it up and get sent back. This is why suicidewiders worked so well for skimmer missions. So consistent game mechanics and in-game explanations that can apply in situation A can apply in situation B. The alternative is creating a brand new explanation ad hoc for each person's own bend to the narrative.
You are open to considerations? ROFL..
Of course, I always allow that I could be overlooking something. Do you think I have a nefarious intent here?

Sure you can disagree, it's a forum after all. I think it's proper though to at least read what you're disagreeing with, and to state why you disagree instead of challenging me to keep doing it the way it is now, especially since I addressed that in the opening post.

With that said, we can just agree to disagree - you don't need to respond. I know your stance and you know mine. Let's move on.
 
Only last night, I had to transfer a ship. I needed two ships there for two specific roles, so no choice unless I wanted to be permanently taxiing backwards and forwards. The transfer took 48 minutes. I did it in 3 jumps.

Admittedly, the ship I was flying had greater range, but that did seem a bit excessive.
 
No thanks. I like it the way it is. It means some management is in order, some thoughthas to go into your decisions.

Also as to making it more expensive, it will then become something only the very wealthy will use.

So no. It has a nice balance at the moment and doesn't need to changed.
That's how it's been already since release though....

I've said it many times before and I'll say it again, I'd never have spent the time supporting non-instant transfers if I'd known about the prices Fdev had in mind. I still have an image of that much better-balanced spreadsheet that another forum user cooked up (I forget whom):
turoejN.jpg


It hasn't impressed me that the exorbitant cost has not been addressed since.
 
"It should take as long to transfer as it would take the longest LY ship in the game to reach that station."-Schmack post 1
Other aspects of this discussion aside, this bit makes no sense. When your ship is being transferred to your current location, one of two things is happening.

1. You've posted an advert for a pilot to fly your ship to your current location, in which case it should take as long as it would take an average pilot to fly your ship to your location, not magically give your ship the longest possible jump range.

2. You've requested that your ship be shipped to you within the hold of a massive transport vessel capable of carrying at least one, if not multiple ships, within its cargo bay. Why should this type of ship (a T-42?) have the jump range of an uber-lightweight stripped-down exploraconda?
 
That's how it's been already since release though....

I've said it many times before and I'll say it again, I'd never have spent the time supporting non-instant transfers if I'd known about the prices Fdev had in mind. I still have an image of that much better-balanced spreadsheet that another forum user cooked up (I forget whom): View attachment 127769

It hasn't impressed me that the exorbitant cost has not been addressed since.
The cost doesn't bother me at all. Its a nice balance as it makes you decide whether to go and get your ship or send for it, or fly an alternative ship. If it was any cheaper, sending for it would be the default way to get your ship. As to your price list, I think they are perfectly fine.

As has been stated, if it was instant it would be far more expensive then what it is now as stated by FDev. So if you think it is exorbitant now, it would have been far worse with instant and only available to the very rich.

Prices are fine and this is coming from someone with very little cash. I have around 30million in credits vash, but have a good number of ships.
 
I am going to answer your questions using things we have already stated for the sake of parsimony:

Shoddy content and "sense of size"/slippery slope argument about normal SC travel:

"That's a really poor "content" offering if wait time is being used to create the illusion of expanse. Travel wait time is quite different, as you're engaged in what you're doing. Who here is engaged in watching the transfer timer?" -Schmack post 10

Did I suggest transfer being faster than actual travel:

"It should take as long to transfer as it would take the longest LY ship in the game to reach that station."-Schmack post 1


What it has to do with game mode:

"I think the QoL Improvement was already added. See people did not want a PvP to be able to use an Explorer type ship to get to a location super fast. Then summon their combat ship in a short amount of time to cause havoc to other players." -Lestat post 26


Why didn't I fly the ship to begin with:

"Since the in-game tools for finding interesting things to do are basically non-existent, when you stumble upon something and you have a couple hours to kill, you want to move to that role. Without your role specific ship/modules you're just out of luck. You'll need to wait the 1.5 hours real time to be able to continue. So you either abandon that goal for the time or you just quit the session. " -Schmack post 1

"Since the in-game tools for finding interesting things to do are basically non-existent, when you stumble upon something and you have a couple hours to kill, you want to move to that role. Without your role specific ship/modules you're just out of luck. You'll need to wait the 1.5 hours real time to be able to continue. So you either abandon that goal for the time or you just quit the session." -Schmack post 1

"If you have a counter argument as to why transfer time reduction would break your immersion or somehow negatively affect gameplay, I'm open to considering it. If it comes down to "PvPers want to ship gimmicky builds instantly to grief and gank at CGs", I get that concern and it's legit. Let's just not pretend it's about realism and choice." -Schmack post 33

You're asking me questions as evidence to support "it makes sense to have transfer times" instead of explaining how it makes sense. I never said it would transfer a lot faster.

But here's a scenario for you just to show consistency:

You travel 300Ly to fetch a ship. You get interdicted in the system where your ship resides, and you explode during confrontation. You now have the choice to magically appear in the same ship at your original station. Your ship was magically recreated at a system that doesn't offer them, with modules they don't have materials to build, and you are magically sitting inside of it. All this for the low low price of the rebuy.

It would cost exponentially more to have the ship transferred than to just blow it up and get sent back. This is why suicidewiders worked so well for skimmer missions. So consistent game mechanics and in-game explanations that can apply in situation A can apply in situation B. The alternative is creating a brand new explanation ad hoc for each person's own bend to the narrative.

Of course, I always allow that I could be overlooking something. Do you think I have a nefarious intent here?

Sure you can disagree, it's a forum after all. I think it's proper though to at least read what you're disagreeing with, and to state why you disagree instead of challenging me to keep doing it the way it is now, especially since I addressed that in the opening post.

With that said, we can just agree to disagree - you don't need to respond. I know your stance and you know mine. Let's move on.


1. So you are now being wvery dishonest here, you wqant to transfger a ship with 10-15 LY jump range, a the sped ad some 80+ LY range ships. might not be instant transfer as such, but transfer at some 8x faster than the ship can move on its own is just a mockery.


2.
Once again, dishonmerst argument and no answers.


3.
So basically a "I WANT IT NOW! " argument. you do not want to plan out or prepare, you want to have it "now"....

4.
Once again bogus arguemtns.... you are not open top discussion... your asnwer have told me that much. You have not even addressed the PvP part, that you brought up...



5.
More Hyperbole arguments, using strawman.
 
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