General / Off-Topic Manchester City, a team of players at more than a billion euros.

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With all the European soccer fans I thought this thread would have gotten a little interest. I was hoping for a stimulating conversation, but alas it was not to be.
 
Once you get past the "needs" in life aren't most "wants" like that?
Nope. £95 for a shirt that costs well under £5 to make, is and always will be a rip off. I don't follow football anyway.

Only under a lot of pressure: Man City, have just allowed their female team, to use the main pitch to practise on. The whole thing, from the creation of the Premier League, to Sky's takeover of any popular sport; is a farce.

Driven by greed and nothing else.
 
Nope. £95 for a shirt that costs well under £5 to make, is and always will be a rip off. I don't follow football anyway.

Only under a lot of pressure: Man City, have just allowed their female team, to use the main pitch to practise on. The whole thing, from the creation of the Premier League, to Sky's takeover of any popular sport; is a farce.

Driven by greed and nothing else.
Everybody needs a thneed, CMDR. And if people are willing to pay top dollar for a bit of merchandise to make them feel closer to their beloved team, isn't that their business?
 
............., to Sky's takeover of any popular sport; is a farce.

Driven by greed and nothing else.
Absolutely, couldn't agree more, Sky totally messed up all sports in the UK. BBC couldn't afford to keep all of the previously protected "national crown jewel" events after these were split into two "grades" - hence cricket and golf for example are virtually absent from free TV. The thing that amazed me about the split is that the Commonwealth Games are not Cat A protected.

 
Everybody needs a thneed, CMDR. And if people are willing to pay top dollar for a bit of merchandise to make them feel closer to their beloved team, isn't that their business?
Only if there is a monopoly, for the manufacture and sale of the products. Which is driven by the 'I want' and 'if you love us, you will spend' culture.

You are a great one for freedoms and lack of state control mechanisms and yet, you support genuine fans and supporters, being ripped off by corporate greed.

Are any of those sports kits; genuinely worth the money fans pay for them? Are any of those supposed 'top class' players, genuinely worth, the wages they are paid?
 
Only if there is a monopoly, for the manufacture and sale of the products. Which is driven by the 'I want' and 'if you love us, you will spend' culture.

You are a great one for freedoms and lack of state control mechanisms and yet, you support genuine fans and supporters, being ripped off by corporate greed.

Are any of those sports kits; genuinely worth the money fans pay for them? Are any of those supposed 'top class' players, genuinely worth, the wages they are paid?
Dude, I think sports fans are nuts. I think the world's obsession with sports is nuts. People by and large waste their money on stupid, meaningless stuff as a rule. But I'm all for letting people spend their money (or businesses pay their employees) however they want; if they think that Lakers t-shirt is too much then don't buy it. You'll find that when it comes to buying this crap, most "fans" look at it like it's their contribution to the team they love as a means of support.
 
Dude, I think sports fans are nuts. I think the world's obsession with sports is nuts. People by and large waste their money on stupid, meaningless stuff as a rule. But I'm all for letting people spend their money (or businesses pay their employees) however they want; if they think that Lakers t-shirt is too much then don't buy it. You'll find that when it comes to buying this crap, most "fans" look at it like it's their contribution to the team they love as a means of support.
Then they are, brain dead and brain washed, idoits.
 
Football and money, eh? I watched my club (Pompey) nearly disappear out of existence. Lots of dodgy money and a huge court cases nearly destroyed PFC. People organised and collected money and eventually formed the 'Supporters Trust', which then in turn bought the club and saved it. The first British Football Club to be owned by its fans. And it worked. When Eisner took over, there was proper talks with the supporters trust and a huge event at Portsmouth Guildhall, discussing their plans for the club before any agreement.

Portsmouth FC haven't an atom of money compared to Man City, but every win or loss has been fought for. The pride at Fratton Park is even bigger than it was before. And when we get back into the Premiership, maybe some years from now, the big clubs will dread a visit 'down south'. Because Football isn't just about the cost of the team; it's about the duty to the fans. Love and respect is earned, not bought.

This is about the football club, not Man City fans who are as fine as any other.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pompey_Supporters_Trust

Source: https://youtu.be/QSJ3Je2kebI

Source: https://youtu.be/0n7DZY79jTY
 
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Driven by greed and nothing else.
Actually no, but it's a common mistake. These things aren't driven by greed. They're driven by "want", or more precisely "demand". These shirts cost 70$, becuase there are a crapton of people willing to give 70$ for one of them. If people were only willing to pay 15$, they would cost only 15$. Why do you think an iPhone costs over 1000$? Or why does renting a house in London costs 3 arms and 3 legs?

Because there are lots of people willing to pay that price. That's as simple as that. That's the very definition of "value". The value of something, is the amount most people are willing to pay for it, whatever it is. If people were only willing to pay 300$ for an iPhone, it wouldn't cost 1000$. But as long as they cost 1000$ and keep disappearing from the shelves, their prices won't drop. The same for football shirts.

Unlike what many people say, the true rulers in capitalism aren't the "big corporations", but the customers. Customers are the ones who dictate prices, and the ones who get to decide which companies thrive and which companies die.
 
Actually no, but it's a common mistake. These things aren't driven by greed. They're driven by "want", or more precisely "demand". These shirts cost 70$, becuase there are a crapton of people willing to give 70$ for one of them. If people were only willing to pay 15$, they would cost only 15$. Why do you think an iPhone costs over 1000$? Or why does renting a house in London costs 3 arms and 3 legs?

Because there are lots of people willing to pay that price. That's as simple as that. That's the very definition of "value". The value of something, is the amount most people are willing to pay for it, whatever it is. If people were only willing to pay 300$ for an iPhone, it wouldn't cost 1000$. But as long as they cost 1000$ and keep disappearing from the shelves, their prices won't drop. The same for football shirts.

Unlike what many people say, the true rulers in capitalism aren't the "big corporations", but the customers. Customers are the ones who dictate prices, and the ones who get to decide which companies thrive and which companies die.
Nope. If there was a seller outside the ground, selling exactly the same items, for half the price. They would sell out, every day.

As I said before: Without the monopoly, the prices would dramatically go down.

I also said: We have a culture, where people 'must have something' whatever the costs. Simply because it 'is the thing to own'. Brain washed idiots.
 
Then they are, brain dead and brain washed, idoits.
Others might see someone sat in front of a monitor moving a mouse/hotas around as 'brain dead brain washed idiots' that are due a heart attack. Don't even mention a certain 'Anita...', eh?

As much as someone playing a video game knows what they've paid for, so do football fans. And like video games, sometimes our expectations aren't met. So, like a gaming forum talking/arguing about Solo vs Open, so in a pub after a match will be talking/arguing about whether a goal was offside or not. I think some of us thrive on frustration as a way of feeling alive. It's never over.

Atmosphere is a big thing with football. The anticipation of a goal and the noise of the crowd can be compared to seeing a live band... It's so different in a crowd than it is listening to the record at home. And who'd say buying a record or going to a gig is mindless?

I get the image of the football fan paying for this seasons shirt, but a lot of people here pay for paint jobs/ship kits which really amount to 1's and 0's and some silicon.

When you see your club win a trophy you never thought you'd live to see, in a league you never thought they'd get to and you're middle aged, cheering with your life long mates and seeing the smiles and the tears mixed together in an emotional timeless unforgettable moment; suddenly you're back at school and the adult momentarily steps aside for the child that was suppressed for so long. That moment is priceless. It is so alive. Whatever you're into, understand that there is more to football than meets the eye. Just like there is with video gaming to a non gamer.
 
Nope. If there was a seller outside the ground, selling exactly the same items, for half the price. They would sell out, every day.

As I said before: Without the monopoly, the prices would dramatically go down.

I also said: We have a culture, where people 'must have something' whatever the costs. Simply because it 'is the thing to own'. Brain washed idiots.
Apple doesn't have a monopoly on smartphones, they sell smartphones for probably over 50% profit margin (probably more), yet people sweep them from store shelves anyway. So what's the true value of an iPhone? 150$, or 1000$ ?

I personally would never pay more than 200$ for a smartphone, but that doesnt matter, while people keep buying them at 1000$, they're worth 1000$. And it's not Apple's fault. Samey same for football t-shirts. I would never pay over 15$ for a football t-shirt, but while people keep pushing each other fighting to get that last shirt on the shelf for 65$, then they're worth 65$. There are other things that I'm willing to pay that will seem too much to other people as well, like over 2000$ for a gaming PC, or 500$ for a motorcycle exhaust can.

If you sell a product, and enough people would be willing to pay X for it, regardless of what it costed to produce, you would sell it for X, not X/10.

If people want prices to go down, then don't buy overpriced stuff they don't need anyway. If people are happy to pay high prices, then the price is right.
 
Apple doesn't have a monopoly on smartphones, they sell smartphones for probably over 50% profit margin (probably more), yet people sweep them from store shelves anyway. So what's the true value of an iPhone? 150$, or 1000$ ?

I personally would never pay more than 200$ for a smartphone, but that doesnt matter, while people keep buying them at 1000$, they're worth 1000$. And it's not Apple's fault. Samey same for football t-shirts. I would never pay over 15$ for a football t-shirt, but while people keep pushing each other fighting to get that last shirt on the shelf for 65$, then they're worth 65$. There are other things that I'm willing to pay that will seem too much to other people as well, like over 2000$ for a gaming PC, or 500$ for a motorcycle exhaust can.

If you sell a product, and enough people would be willing to pay X for it, regardless of what it costed to produce, you would sell it for X, not X/10.

If people want prices to go down, then don't buy overpriced stuff they don't need anyway. If people are happy to pay high prices, then the price is right.
I suppose the same could be said about Android phones. To get a decent one (unless you just want to use it as a phone), you have to pay top dollar. But, like Apple, there is no competition. Apple and Android are tied to their respective operating systems. A mobile phone company can't just start up and enter the market. It has to adhere to either OS. So, they are monopolies. People rely on mobile phones, so they can't just not buy them. It's a done deal. I've had enough of AMD, Intel and NVidia. I'm going to build a gaming PC, oh, wait a minute. It doesn't matter if you're willing to pay X for it or not if the choice is limited to a few brands. Supply and Demand, but the supply is determined before you can decide.
 
Others might see someone sat in front of a monitor moving a mouse/hotas around as 'brain dead brain washed idiots' that are due a heart attack. Don't even mention a certain 'Anita...', eh?

As much as someone playing a video game knows what they've paid for, so do football fans. And like video games, sometimes our expectations aren't met. So, like a gaming forum talking/arguing about Solo vs Open, so in a pub after a match will be talking/arguing about whether a goal was offside or not. I think some of us thrive on frustration as a way of feeling alive. It's never over.

Atmosphere is a big thing with football. The anticipation of a goal and the noise of the crowd can be compared to seeing a live band... It's so different in a crowd than it is listening to the record at home. And who'd say buying a record or going to a gig is mindless?

I get the image of the football fan paying for this seasons shirt, but a lot of people here pay for paint jobs/ship kits which really amount to 1's and 0's and some silicon.

When you see your club win a trophy you never thought you'd live to see, in a league you never thought they'd get to and you're middle aged, cheering with your life long mates and seeing the smiles and the tears mixed together in an emotional timeless unforgettable moment; suddenly you're back at school and the adult momentarily steps aside for the child that was suppressed for so long. That moment is priceless. It is so alive. Whatever you're into, understand that there is more to football than meets the eye. Just like there is with video gaming to a non gamer.
The atmosphere, support and devotion, was just the same. When fans wore flat caps and home made scarfs and raised a cheer, with wooden clackers. I understand, fan devotion to a team, or sport and even an individual participant; but that does not justify, or excuse; exploiting that devotion.
 
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