Credits are too easy now.

It's almost always the players who already have billions who are the ones to say that they don't like how easy it is to get rich.....

I wonder why?
Just because some of you had to slog for it, and don't like, or are jealous that the newer players have an easier time than you?
That's an easy point to make, but the question was: Is it right to be able to make 200 mil an hour after starting? If not, what would be a sensible amount?
 
That's an easy point to make, but the question was: Is it right to be able to make 200 mil an hour after starting? If not, what would be a sensible amount?
The way I see it, there is no right or wrong. If a mechanic is in the game, then it's up to the player to learn how to use it.

A starter in a Sidey will not be able to get 200m an hour even if he went into a VO hotspot.
He's gonna have to work his way up to at least an ASP X before he can start to make serious moolah per run.
And only when he's gotten a Python will he start really bringing in the dough.

If he's in the dark about core mining, or if he's just not interested in it, or perhaps even a klutz who can't tell his 4ss from his elbow when using his thrusters, he's not likely gonna make that kinda money easily.

I stubbornly refused to do Painite mining from way back because I couldn't stand the thought of just sitting there in the field shooting a mining lance into a rock for hours. At least with VO, I got to play around with maneuvering. But there it was. 21 mil and one Vulture and an ASPX, to 12 ships and a couple of billions just a 2 weeks later.
 
It's almost always the players who already have billions who are the ones to say that they don't like how easy it is to get rich.....

I wonder why?
Just because some of you had to slog for it, and don't like, or are jealous that the newer players have an easier time than you?
Nope. Its because we know we had more fun when we had 8 Million in the bank, than when we had 800 Million.
Its not beyond the realms of possibility that we want new players to have as much fun as we did, and not just be bored after a month.
I often think we care about it more than FD.
 
Nope. Its because we know we had more fun when we had 8 Million in the bank, than when we had 800 Million.
Its not beyond the realms of possibility that we want new players to have as much fun as we did, and not just be bored after a month.
I often think we care about it more than FD.
Well, I'm pretty sure they wouldn't have fun with old credit earning rates AND the stupid engineer grind on top. You can go and thank power creep for that.
 
Nope. Its because we know we had more fun when we had 8 Million in the bank, than when we had 800 Million.
Its not beyond the realms of possibility that we want new players to have as much fun as we did, and not just be bored after a month.
I often think we care about it more than FD.

No... YOU had fun when you had 8 mil in the bank.
I have more fun when I have 3 b in my bank and can pick and choose any ship I want, fully A-rate it at will.

Flying a Sidey was a bore. Having to peck away in RES sites at the pirates almost ineffectually.
Now I can just blow them away in a few shots. That's fun.

If you don't like that, you can always choose to reset your account once you hit 80m. I'll keep my Credits.
 
I've said before the exponential ship cost was the first step towards a credit earning problem. At first Frontier tried to keep it in check, but "exploit" after "exploit" was found after each patch and finally Frontier decided that ship has sailed. Let commanders have all the credits they want, we'll make them obsolete.

Enter the new currency called Materials, soon to be followed by Arx (in some way).
 
Players have been whining for years that it has been so very difficult to earn credits. ED loosens up on the money a little bit and now it's "Credits are too easy now".
I remember the soul destroyingly low credit rewards from a few years ago very well, and can't say I'd be happy to have them back.

Thing is, the problem isn't the amount of credits you can earn per hour as such, but the balancing of it all.

I went VO mining in a Cobra Mk3 a couple of nights ago, and made 50m credits by cracking open 2 rocks. In a small, inexpensive ship, with standard outfitting requiring no grind.

Also, because of their high value (even where demand is zero, ZERO, I can sell them for 1.6m a ton, I would like to hear FDev's explanation for this... it makes no sense at all) there's no point in mining anything else anymore (apart from RPing). Who in their right mind would mine for regular commodities? The relevant missions don't pay as well in comparison either and can be very grindy; say you need Brommelite - you come across this a thousand times until you pick up a mission to gather 40 odd tons, computer says no. Abandoned many a mission for this reason.

What if I want to do something else that pays similarly? There isn't really much out there - to earn 50m credits with exploration and or PAX missions, you'd have to spend a lot of time travelling (certainly more than the 30 mins required for above VO mining) or engage in very repetitive back and forth missions (Sothis/Ceos etc.).

Transport missions can pay well, but the single jump ones yielding 6-8m require a certain rank at least (as far as I know) and can't be found all that often. Most pay between 1-3m.

Combat? Well, the riskiest pays the worst - an Elite level wing assassination mission vs. 3-5 engineered ships nets you 2.5m max, minus potential repair costs and requires a decently engineered ship. Although solo assassinations yield about the same (which I will never understand). Massacre missions can pay better, but tend to be very grindy and therefore time consuming.

AX combat? I'd consider this end game content which costs you more than it makes you. I don't even mind this too much for that reason.

Illegal activities aren't worth the faff unless you're determined for RP reasons to engage in them.

I'm ok with it now because I've seen most of what the game has on offer, and have flown every ship in the game - so I'm doing missions depending on the game play they provide, not the credits they yield. It's just a shame that whenever I need to top up my credit balance, the single best way right now is "go VO mining", with few other alternatives making this a bit of a samey experience.

Just to summarise, I believe VO prices are well out of whack, while the rest just needs some tweaking and I think rewards are reasonable now. Combat mission rewards could be a bit higher though. I also don't think VO's are a goldrush as this has been going on since 3.3 dropped. Gold rushes shouldn't last longer than a week or so imo.
 
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No... YOU had fun when you had 8 mil in the bank.
I have more fun when I have 3 b in my bank and can pick and choose any ship I want, fully A-rate it at will.

Flying a Sidey was a bore. Having to peck away in RES sites at the pirates almost ineffectually.
Now I can just blow them away in a few shots. That's fun.

If you don't like that, you can always choose to reset your account once you hit 80m. I'll keep my Credits.
Or do what I did - move to Colonia and ship your fleet over. Reduced my credit cash balance from 2.5bn to 70m in a couple of minutes. Got to say, it does feel better though being a little more restricted again, as swimming in cash and changing ships constantly got boring after a while, too.
 
In ED, it simply means, you can have any ship in the game. You can PVP and not worry about losing ship after ship after ship.
You can decide to take any mission you want, just for the hell of it, without worrying about the risks or consequences.
I really appreciate your line of thinking. It makes sense.

But im just going on my experiences with my little 2 billion + full fleet. I try to do the rp missions that i like and they seem somehow hollow now. Its probably removing the stacking. Maybe i just to think differently, but im not really appreciating the state you describe. There was a fine line between rp and bloated time sink with everything in elite, and the main reward not being felt anymore.. i don't exactly like it.

Maybe fleet carriers will change this.
 
I don't agree, I always have to grind for money. If you have too much money, you need to do more pvp and more canyons. I have 2.5bn in assets and very little liquid at any given time, maybe only 400m, I do NOT need a credit sink, and find VO mining the only decent time economical credit gathering activity.

thankfully, I doubt fleet carriers will change this, I expect they'll have a high buying price, but will then run on commodities, which can be bought OR gathered. My only hope in this regard, is that fleet carriers require too much investment in time and resources to be viable for one individual. I think it would be ridiculous if every player with a couple of billion had a fleet carrier. Imagine if they show up on the orrery, how many would be parked in shinrarta, picture that orrery view and smile. lol.
 
An easy fix would be to icnrease rebuy for ship destruction for engineered ships. For every G5 engineered module you pay 100% of its price in credits upon destruction (that's still less than the total value of your materials as they are worth much more). For each grade you pay 20% of the module on top capping at 100%. So a fully G5 engineered Anaconda for example could very well cost you 800M credits for a rebuy if you fully G5 engineer it and still manage to lose it.
The result would be risk to be reintroduced into the game and a valid credit sink that requires you to mine void opals for a couple of hours if you lose a big boy. Ofcourse, if you lose a smaller ship, let's say a Viper MK III, you are not really concerned as they rarely cost you more than 3M.
At everyone that thinks credits are too easy to gather: I have written a suggestion that should tackle this exact issue. I had this idea for months now and I believe I am not the first one that came up with it but searching through the suggestions forum I didn't found any similar suggestion fast. So here is the link to my suggestion: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threads/increased-rebuy-for-engineered-modules-to-tackle-credit-inflation.517197/
 
Credits by now come incredibly easy. Mudflation at it's best. But anything short of wiping all accounts now is too late to fix this. There's so many people with so many credits around by now. Making it harder to earn credits won't affect us here any more, while it would be felt as strong punishment by anybody new to the game.

Punishing new players while protecting older players property usually is a baaaaad idea.

Also note that credits don't really matte that much anyway. You can have any ship you want, or even a dozen of them. You always only fly one, and the performance of that one also depends a lot on how well it is engineered.

We're thus quite at the same state as most MMOs out there: the basic currency (be it gold or credits) is easy to come by. And any player is a rich man. But some later introduced currencies are harder to get, can't be used for trading and are directly connected to upgrading your equipment. So engineers, their unlocks and the materials for engineering are the actual end game currency. While credits by now are just something piling up in the run of time.

Just a regular MMO situation, nothing unusual. :)
 
Sept. 2018 though. Quite a long time ago.
Yes, my CMDR hasn't flown with the 13th recently...he's been focused on different areas.

Regardless, my original point was that even frequent PvP does not imply sufficient expenses to make credits an issue, even if one has only casual/incidental credit income. Losing ships, even against overwhelming odds, has always been essentially optional, and in the current state of the game, a loss of a medium combat vessel can be covered by a single 10 minute mission.

An easy fix would be to icnrease rebuy for ship destruction for engineered ships. For every G5 engineered module you pay 100% of its price in credits upon destruction (that's still less than the total value of your materials as they are worth much more). For each grade you pay 20% of the module on top capping at 100%. So a fully G5 engineered Anaconda for example could very well cost you 800M credits for a rebuy if you fully G5 engineer it and still manage to lose it.
The result would be risk to be reintroduced into the game and a valid credit sink that requires you to mine void opals for a couple of hours if you lose a big boy. Ofcourse, if you lose a smaller ship, let's say a Viper MK III, you are not really concerned as they rarely cost you more than 3M.
I've always disliked how supposedly rare or unique Engineered modules could be replaced at no extra cost with no added delay. It's somewhat more forgivable now that the BPs are standardized, but it still makes a mockery of the system, and lets even expensive ships be thrown away over and over again with little financial pressure.

Of course, this doesn't fix the issue of losing ships being largely optional.

In ED, it simply means, you can have any ship in the game. You can PVP and not worry about losing ship after ship after ship.
You can decide to take any mission you want, just for the hell of it, without worrying about the risks or consequences.
This is precisely the problem.

CMDRs not having to worry about losses trivialized both the losses and the victories, not to mention making deterrent impossible. Being able to do anything, just for the hell of it, no matter how unprofitable or expensive the endeavour undermines the entire premise the game was based upon.

Risks and consequences make for engaging gameplay.

The way I see it, there is no right or wrong. If a mechanic is in the game, then it's up to the player to learn how to use it.
There is nothing to use.

Unlimited money supply erases any gameplay relevance that including money in the game could have.

My CMDR hasn't had to worry about credits in at least three years and all the gameplay incentives and motivations that some level of scarcity can drive have been equally absent, or simply hollow, for at least as long.

But anything short of wiping all accounts now is too late to fix this.
I've been advocating another wipe since they failed to do so at the end of Gamma.

However, even another wipe wouldn't do much in and of itself, the economy would need to be fixed/reimplimented first.
 
I've been advocating another wipe since they failed to do so at the end of Gamma.

However, even another wipe wouldn't do much in and of itself, the economy would need to be fixed/reimplimented first.
You are right that one couldn't go without the other. An economy rework and the wipe would have to be done together, else nothing is gained at all. But my point is that a wipe would be a catastrophic move by now. The game is life since many years. Wiping it now would first and foremost reduce the existing playerbase. No matter how awesome the rework could possibly be, the damage to the game would be bigger than the gains.
 
Flying a Sidey was a bore. Having to peck away in RES sites at the pirates almost ineffectually.
Now I can just blow them away in a few shots. That's fun.
Having to pick and choose, having to build up skills, having things to aspire to - that's fun. Getting nowhere isn't fun, but neither is all reward for zero effort.
 
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I just did a test. I went from new account to Elite billionaire in 12 hours. I had to figure it out as I went, and I made a few mistakes. I reckon now that I know how do do it and without the RNG gods conspiring against me, I might be able to do it in 9 hours. I can remember when it didn't matter whether you went for combat, trade or exploration, the quickest you could do it was about a month of playing all your spare time. After that, people discovered clever unintended ways of shortening that, but I only used normal intended gameplay. Why did they make it so easy now? It seems a bit too easy to me. Is it because new essential gameplay is coming where you need massive amount of credits to participate?
It was always possible to become independent from money in about a day playing time. Nothing new, to be honest.
 
I also think there is a a bit of taking things out of context here. We you having more fun with less money because there was less money? Or were you having more fun at that time because you were learning a lot about tactics and the game so it was more stimulating?

Personally, I am always happier turning in a big haul/ mission rather than getting pennies. I dont think Cr is the issue, i think that a lot of people have just had the game figured out to a satisfactory level for a while. Personally I still have a lot to learn and a lot of stuff to try, so I am having a blast
 
This basic Adder, easily attainable early game, is capable of raking in nearly 30 million of opals in one run, assuming the cargo hold and refinery are both filled.

If someone would have told me I could make that kind of money Mining with an Adder back in 2016, I would have probably died of laughter.

Rookies these days are just a YouTube trip away from rolling in the dough. Good for them, though.

I was lucky to get some missions asking for one of the three P’s, or Osmium. Me and the guys would share cargo to help each other finish those missions lol.

All of the time spent out there, had it been in the current game, would have made us billionaires a several times over.

I still enjoy mining. Always kinda have. But actually getting paid more than a handful of peanuts for doing so? Even better.
 
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