ANNOUNCEMENT April Update - Coming 23 April 2019

If I remember correctly, in the first Elite game you had zero chances to meet a pirate in a high security system.
Yep, and in FE2 you could literally strip your weapons out to make room for more cargo when you were starting out and never have to worry about meeting anyone even remotely hostile doing your first few milk runs between Sol and Barnard's Star.
 
Plenty of space games now and in the past have had some sort of autopilot and they were games about flying ships. It didn't ruin those games and I won't begin to think it might ruin this one, even if it ever went full autopilot instead of this soft autopilot that we're getting. Not every feature in a game is going to be for you. If it's completely optional and you don't want it to be a part of your game, then yes, don't use it. Just like if I don't like ship transfer times, just fly my ship to where I want it instead, right? Right. What's the point in bemoaning something that isn't required or really offers any advantages that would make it feel needed?
 
Crime and punishment isn't the problem, ATR didn't change anything in terms of ganking - and indeed it wasn't even really intended to, it was a BGS balancing tool to stop cop massacre. As the game balance currently stands unless you go full Minority Report and make punishment pre-emptive there will always be seal clubbing. You're trying to fix the wrong part of the game, the issue is the massive irretrievable power differential between casually fit ship and minmaxed ships, and the practical impossibility of balancing TTK for all players in a system where combat ships can have 2000% + more health and 100% + more damage output than a new, unmodded casual build.
 
High sec. systems for me at least, mean systems that offer high level of protection, but that does not mean the theft and assassinations are completely out or impossible to happen.
Even on Earth in 2019, developed High Security societies breed and attract all kind of abnormalities, abominations and deviations. We had that idiot that is now writing his essays in prision in Norway (so much for developed countries...) that killed dozens of people in broad daylight. We had the guy in New Zealand that shot dead so many people in their worshiping grounds, we had concerts where some lunatic blew himself and people around him, despite high security. And so on.

Tl;dr - high security systems should never exclude the crime by itself, but make it tougher and more unexpected. So new starter zones are completely normal and appreciated. Flying a ship for me is a second nature, but some people find it extremely difficult and are playing Elite game for the first time.
 
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I'm always happy to see new content :) and all of this is no exception however:

Don't get me wrong I think this is an excellent addition too, though don't you think it is time that the traffic controllers in the stations actually controlled the traffic! instead of just being an affectation.
When using the docking computer your ship has to wait in the queue, but that doesn't stop some other commander who doesn't use a docking computer, slipping in before you or if it comes to that an NPC doing the same which I've noticed they sometimes do.
If the traffic controller was implemented properly and you're using a docking computer you will be automatically put in the queue, but if your not using one you should be told where in the queue you are and if you jump the queue you will be fined a significant enough fine to make it not worth while jumping the queue. Of course there are always exceptions to the rule, for instance if you have reached the station after being in combat and your screen has been blown out and your running out of air then you should have the ability to convey this to the traffic controller and they will give you priority as an emergency landing.
I would suggest this comes down to the "lets not make the docking computer make acutally playing the game redundant!". being able to queue jump (at our own risk) is vital imo
1) because playing the game must always be the most efficient way
2) because otherwise it completely kills smuggling. who is gonna smuggle (what ever) when a simple ships scan has them bang to rights, if they have to sit politely in a queue for 5 minutes. if you want to have the game play isself for you then you should have to sit in the queue. if you want to jump this waiting time then turn off the aids and DIY it imo.

btw back in the day the docking computer was meant to be linked to the tech level of the station, this was another imo decent feature which got cut.

the idea being that the docking computer was a 2 part piece of gear, half in our ship the other half in the station. In a dirty back water or some hollowed out asteroid pirate base they would not have the gear to auto dock... in high tech systems they would and you would pay an increased docking fee to use it (docking fees were meant to be a thing)

of course wreckless flying and causing damage to a station would get you a big fine to repair damage, and repeated mistiakes could make it so that they would force you to use the docking computer or you would not be given docking permission.

it is this kind of attention to detail which is sorely lacking in ED imo... and it isnt because the devs didnt think about it, they just gave up on it. :(

but just thing of the added interest that could bring, ie in a T9 or an anaconda.... i can use auto docking but have to queue and pay increased fees, or i can do it myself BUT i am risking a fine if i screw it up by damaging anything.....
taking on missions to stations without a docking computer, i would maybe want to consider a smaller ship that is easier to dock because if not any profit from the mission could be lost.

new players would have a filter and could route to systems and also highlight missions which are to systems WITH high tech gear.
 
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Crime and punishment isn't the problem, ATR didn't change anything in terms of ganking - and indeed it wasn't even really intended to, it was a BGS balancing tool to stop cop massacre. As the game balance currently stands unless you go full Minority Report and make punishment pre-emptive there will always be seal clubbing. You're trying to fix the wrong part of the game, the issue is the massive irretrievable power differential between casually fit ship and minmaxed ships, and the practical impossibility of balancing TTK for all players in a system where combat ships can have 2000% + more health and 100% + more damage output than a new, unmodded casual build.
I think that's true about ATR but I don't agree that the imbalance with combat ships is the whole issue. Even in the new starter areas I expect that seal clubbers will do their stupidity successfully in stock Sidewinders. An experienced player will always be "imbalanced" against someone who is still learning the controls.

The only way of stopping this is really ferocious C&P. A god-mode laser blast reaching across a system from the nearest station causing instant destruction as soon as notoriety is gained, or something similar.

I think that's the only thing that will work; I'm not quite sure that it's desirable.
 
as soon as notoriety is gained
Even in this instance, the seal would already have been clubbed and gankers could feasibly continue doing this with account resets in the starter areas. But yeah, you're right new, inexperienced players will always be at risk from more skilled players. I think this is impossible to avoid while still having a dynamic multiplayer space. If the game was balanced correctly and players were shown more clearly how to make use of the defensive tools available to them instagibbing would be less prevalent, and the situation would be considerably less ridiculous than it currently is for everyone involved.
 
Even in this instance, the seal would already have been clubbed and gankers could feasibly continue doing this with account resets in the starter areas. But yeah, you're right new, inexperienced players will always be at risk from more skilled players. I think this is impossible to avoid while still having a dynamic multiplayer space. If the game was balanced correctly and players were shown more clearly how to make use of the defensive tools available to them instagibbing would be less prevalent, and the situation would be considerably less ridiculous than it currently is for everyone involved.
You need no punishment if there is no crime. Just make player's ships immune to another player's ship fire\ram damage in that "noob zone", implementing some kind of PVE-only area by the game mechanics. No need in permit locks and complex solutions.
And now let's start "muh imurshin" rant. ;)

PS: Similar solution implemented and works perfectly in SWTOR, for example. You cannot kill another human player in the starting areas.
 
I'm not really getting this complaint though. At the moment we have free for all seal clubbing, for any ganker who fancies it. With restricted start systems the seal clubbing will still exist but will be much less, as Murder Harry and The Narcissists (great band) can continue using new accounts.

So ... it's better, surely.
Better?

So if someone is beating you about the head and shoulders and you cry out for something better and the beating stops on your shoulders.... Is that better? I mean your shoulders would surely feel better, right?

Just saying.

And seriously, Neil makes a great point: What is stopping an experienced Ganker/Griefer/etc. from just buying/starting a new account to gain access to a "target rich environment"? The idea of a beginner zone is a good idea. I am just wondering if FD has a plan to address this.
 
And seriously, Neil makes a great point: What is stopping an experienced Ganker/Griefer/etc. from just buying/starting a new account to gain access to a "target rich environment"? The idea of a beginner zone is a good idea. I am just wondering if FD has a plan to address this.
As we already know, nothing. The only restriction is that everyone is going to be in either eagles, haulers or sidewinders. It does give the newbies a better chance as the seal clubbers have been in FDLs and Corvettes before. Would be nice is some well know gankers get owned by new players in a sidewinder.
 
Like these new updates, now I only need a multi star jump computer and the repetitive task of star jumping will be gone, and I can concentrate on actually enjoying the game.
 
As we already know, nothing. The only restriction is that everyone is going to be in either eagles, haulers or sidewinders. It does give the newbies a better chance as the seal clubbers have been in FDLs and Corvettes before. Would be nice is some well know gankers get owned by new players in a sidewinder.
Well, if I'm in the cluster of systems around Eravate in my little runabout and I see a giant murderwedge hanging around then I'm going to be wary of them, but I might not pay all that much attention to what another sidey is doing. I've seen people do horrible things with pvpwinders to take advantage of people that didn't see them as a threat...
 

StefanOS

Moderator
Honestly combat got so out of control with optional and military modules that I gave up on pvp
For me the balance was lost when FD allowed the players to stack SHIELD CELL BANKS and SHIELD BOOSTERS (and some weapons who do get too strong with engineering).
Every ship should be able to carry ONLY 1 SCB and 1 SB. And than special fighters could have additional some military modules...
Generally the difference of unengineered and engineered ships did get too big.
 
For me the balance was lost when FD allowed the players to stack SHIELD CELL BANKS and SHIELD BOOSTERS
yeah, hitpoint inflation was a thing form the start, it came steadily even long before engineers. engineers just put it so through the roof that all those special effects became a necessity, so now you need to grind a master degree in gadgetonomics. 'yeah, coooool', but it's more of a thing for young ...
 
Like these new updates, now I only need a multi star jump computer and the repetitive task of star jumping will be gone, and I can concentrate on actually enjoying the game.

I was about to write something as shallow as "yeah, soon we will ask for the game to play itself!"

...

Then i stopped for a moment and thought it over.

Despite the fact that exploring is the sole purpose for "my journey", i still think not everyone should be bothered with the burden of continous jumping.
I'm overwhelmed and in need of self motivating during my present time in DW2, for example.
 
The only way of stopping this is really ferocious C&P.
No level of (in game) punishment is going to stop certain people from killing other players for the sake of ruining their fun. There cannot be an immersion-friendly, in-universe crime and punishment system that works because the players it's targeting are not constrained by the same rules. Players are immortal, can largely ignore fines and bounties and at the end of the day can always reset their save or buy a second account. On top of all that, you can't even really attempt to make crime and punishment too harsh because piracy is a valid player career path and even if you could make a crime and punishment system that could distinguish between piracy and murder for lols, that in itself would be immersion breaking - while there are sometimes mitigating circumstances in murder trials, I don't think "I had to commit the murder to carry out a lesser crime" is one of them.

I have absolutely no idea how big an issue random murders are for player retention (I'd imagine it puts at least some people off :V) but really the only way that's ever getting fixed is opt-in PvP and I don't think that'll fly any time soon, if ever.
 
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