Devs, please give us a quality of life patch. - Page 6

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Thread: Devs, please give us a quality of life patch.

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  1. #76
    I can't believe everyone is completely glossing over Bo's response.

    Her entire response is "Communicate? We totally communicate, we have streams all the time and junk!" Yes, they communicate about the game a lot. But none of that communication is about things that matter.

    Giveaways, workshop streams, spotlights, contests, none of these are the kind of communication the OP and other comments are asking for. No offense to her, but her response completely avoids the issue, and it looks like nobody else noticed?

    It's like if you're in a relationship, and you need to have a serious talk about where it's going, and your boyfriend goes "What? We talk all the time! Just earlier we were talking about lunch, and last night we talked about pokemon, and remember that day where we talked about cats for like 4 hours? We talk constantly! Why are you acting like we need to talk?". Completely missing the point!

    You could put out 5 streams a day and show off 50 workshop creations an hour and you still would not be communicating about the state of the game?

  2. #77
    Originally Posted by MorganaMorgana View Post (Source)
    I can't believe everyone is completely glossing over Bo's response.

    Her entire response is "Communicate? We totally communicate, we have streams all the time and junk!" Yes, they communicate about the game a lot. But none of that communication is about things that matter.

    Giveaways, workshop streams, spotlights, contests, none of these are the kind of communication the OP and other comments are asking for. No offense to her, but her response completely avoids the issue, and it looks like nobody else noticed?

    It's like if you're in a relationship, and you need to have a serious talk about where it's going, and your boyfriend goes "What? We talk all the time! Just earlier we were talking about lunch, and last night we talked about pokemon, and remember that day where we talked about cats for like 4 hours? We talk constantly! Why are you acting like we need to talk?". Completely missing the point!


    You could put out 5 streams a day and show off 50 workshop creations an hour and you still would not be communicating about the state of the game?
    Amen!

  3. #78
    Originally Posted by Palaber1984 View Post (Source)
    The problem with "no collision" is a good example. Does it really took month after month to make it happen?
    And this is also not solved. You get restricted in so many ways at building, what stops me from using this game.
    I dont see any sense in the actual system, precisly it makes me angry.
    While building you have FULL control what you do and where you place things. You can change everything.
    But you are so often restricted (terrain, placing rides, waterlevel, autotunnel, restricted areas around things ...).

    And then, comes the "peeps" and they walk through everything ... What a mess guys ...
    Collision-detection were it is not needed, and missing where it is important.
    Frontier dont want to clip things while building, but while running the game its OK to have "peeps" clipping into everything. Thats 180 the wrong way guys !

    If it is too heavy to calculate this for all "peeps", OK, but then lets us do a map-painting with areas where they can walk and where not. This should be doable, because "peeps" always have to check if they walk on a path (or not).

    Originally Posted by Palaber1984 View Post (Source)
    The same problem we have with dynamic lighting! Why can't set in the options to have dynamic lightning on every little piece. And why we can't create a totally black room with every walltype or better with every object. If I build a 1x1 room but covered with only wooden pillars then I expect totally black inside! The ENigne is not flexible. It looks great at the first time, after looking closer i realize that's away from awesome! Look a the fake boring water from the log flumes and rapid river
    This is one important thing. For a game like this, and also every other 3D-game this is a fundamental function that the enging has to handle. I dont understand why it is not possible to fix it. On some items it works, on some not.
    Also the problem that you mostly cant get things or objects back after you hided them into other things or terrain. For that there is a better editing-menu needed, but still not available.


    Originally Posted by Palaber1984 View Post (Source)
    I think frontier see how people like silvarett are building, then they think they don't need to fix finallly the buggy pathsystem, because silvaretts finds solutions. I'm a great and creative builder and I can mess up with silvarett too but that's not the right way to give us tools that doesn't work intuitive and logical.
    Thats the point, I dont have this skills, and I am very frustrated if it takes hour to build a path, I am also not willing to spend that time, because I have a job and a real live outside of PC, and I dont get paid for playing PC.
    I never played the game a lot, because a lot of stuff is too annoying. I also wont spend the rest of my life to build a park, only because it is too complicated to do basic-stuff.
    For example: Why do I have to switch when I want to rotate a part instead of moving it ? Why cant I move and rotate without switching menus or use shortcuts ??? Hello, its 2017, not 1990 anymore.

    And the first bad thing is the first thing you do with the game ... building a path. Most times I get not the path I want or it does things I dont want. So I got told I have to learn it ?? Hmmm ..... NO, this game should be simple, for kids and people who wanna have fun, or not, ..... ?

    I think that the whole game doesnt know what it will be. On one side, they will have an easy-to-use game. On the other hand they want to build in many features. A software-developer should know that it is not possible to bring both parts under one hood.
    And that is why PC not works fully for many (or is too complicated or time-consuming).

    For coasters there is need of an professional editor, we still have only basic things implemented. Todays real costers are more complex (sliding tracks, elevators, ...). I always have an eye on "No-Limits". You cant do complexe things without an editor. Many people wanna have more control and even watching how many time it costs to do triggers, because the menu is "crap", make me wonderring what this game will basically be. I dont mean that it should be a complicated as No-Limits, but it must go a little bit into that direction if you wanna have lots of functions and also control about them.

    From the first moment people asked for UGC, many said this is not needed, but watch how important this really is. How many items are on Steam ? You hit records with it. And still you are limited to the ingame-pieces which work mostly very good, but you are also again very restricted and this consumes MUCH CPU, because of 3000 imported faces, and 2000 of them are hidden, because you cant do it better with the ingame-parts.

    Also, instead of Frontier doing pieces, they should better concentrate to build stuff we cant do, and this are the basic-game-functions.
    The shop is full of pieces made by users, there is no need that Frontier spends manpower for creating those stuff.

    Originally Posted by Palaber1984 View Post (Source)
    don't need that hole stuff. How much crime we have in real life parks to say "hey we build this into the game"? I don't need that. What I need and want is a real pricing on objects and tickets and rides.
    Thats the funny point, they want to do management, but then make it such unreal, so for what is it in the game now ? Its unusuable, because it is unreal.

    Originally Posted by Palaber1984 View Post (Source)
    I thought in 2017 we can expect a game with dynamic lightning for objects, totally darkness in rooms, better pathsystem, better smarter snapping system for multiple objects,
    Agreed, that is what I expected too. PC is not bad, dont understand me wrong, but I feel there is much wrong with it atm. Make a basic game with easy control for kids and normal players, and make expansions with more complicated menus and options for people who wanna do a more realistic parks, but dont try to combine both into one.

  4. #79
    Originally Posted by inspectorgadget View Post (Source)
    Crime is not needed no but that's not a reason to not add it to the game. It's a fun feature and yes I agree it's not everyone's cup of tea (some are going to be more keen on certain features than others) and that's why they gave us the option to disable it. I would say a small percentage of those who play the game actually choose to play without it so for the most part it's a worthwhile addition. What's wrong with the pricing on objects and rides? Matching it up to real life prices just wouldn't work in this game so they've adjusted accordingly. A problem to you isn't necessarily a problem to someone else, the water is fine and I wouldn't label it as 'fake' and 'boring'. Perhaps one day they'll look into proper water physics but for now it's ok as it is. Regarding no collision, how do you know how difficult it was to implement? Are you really suggesting it wasn't as tricky as they made out? And just to re-emphasise this, $1 in game is NOT $1 US
    Crime is indeed a nice thing, but not a thing for a basic-part in such a game. As paid expansion-part it would have been nice. This is a game about creating a themepark, not a police-swat-game. Now I have thiefs in it, but cant build rides, ... missed the point a little bit ...

    Why is a real-world-based pricing not working? Does this fake-one actually work ? You pay 5$ for a coaster, but 500$ for a kiddie-ride, yeah ... thats realistic. The scale is actually totally wrong, that would not happen if you rely on real-world-prices.

    Water is fine for the basic-game, yes, but also here, an expansion-set should bring a little bit more realistic ones with it.

    Ahmm, you dont know anything about programming ? Question: How complicate is it to build NO house ? Right, its not complicated, but how complicated is it to build a house ? Right, much more ...
    Basicaly an engine has no collision-detection. This must all be programmed manually, every little part of it. So implementing it is a lot of work, but ignoring it is not ANY problem, its basically the simplest thing.

  5. #80
    Originally Posted by MorganaMorgana View Post (Source)
    I can't believe everyone is completely glossing over Bo's response.

    Her entire response is "Communicate? We totally communicate, we have streams all the time and junk!" Yes, they communicate about the game a lot. But none of that communication is about things that matter.

    Giveaways, workshop streams, spotlights, contests, none of these are the kind of communication the OP and other comments are asking for. No offense to her, but her response completely avoids the issue, and it looks like nobody else noticed?

    It's like if you're in a relationship, and you need to have a serious talk about where it's going, and your boyfriend goes "What? We talk all the time! Just earlier we were talking about lunch, and last night we talked about pokemon, and remember that day where we talked about cats for like 4 hours? We talk constantly! Why are you acting like we need to talk?". Completely missing the point!

    You could put out 5 streams a day and show off 50 workshop creations an hour and you still would not be communicating about the state of the game?
    I got that point and it made me again a little bit angry.
    She is good in what she does, but technically she is not the person we need.
    Otherwise, she cant give response,, because that is only possible by developers, and even they cant because they are not the ones who decides about stuff, that is done by the boss only. So this is not that easy.
    But there would be a good way, but I think Frontier wont let go it.

    Open a new section called "Developement"., create a new Thread in it called "Path-system" and let flow all ideas and wishes into that ONE thread, answered by developers and team. Lets discuss about ideas and do votings on features and implementations. Thats what I call "communication". Why not give something like that a try ? What is to loose ?

  6. #81
    Originally Posted by mbc View Post (Source)
    (...)
    Basicaly an engine has no collision-detection. This must all be programmed manually, every little part of it. So implementing it is a lot of work, but ignoring it is not ANY problem, its basically the simplest thing.
    ehm.

    you still want to grab things and place them somewhere, right? no collision here and then you grab null, no matter where you click.

  7. #82
    Guys, as much as I am in favor of all your suggestions we can't treat this game like its still in alpha/beta. Frontier won't be doing huge QoL updates, we will get the seasonal content drops until DLC(?) or Planet Coaster 2 comes out.

    Especially with how they dodged this thread with their response, how could you expect a big QoL update to even happen? Matter of fact QoL updates are probably the hardest to do from a dev standpoint and the least rewarding from a sales standpoint. Showing off a brand new coaster generates a lot more sales then saying you fixed ''the pathing system'' (after half a year) for example.

    Personally I hope they stop the free content drops and provide us some expansive DLC packs with new systems/features etc so we can take the game further. And provide fixes in the meantime

  8. #83
    Originally Posted by hos View Post (Source)
    ehm.

    you still want to grab things and place them somewhere, right? no collision here and then you grab null, no matter where you click.
    No, sorry, you understood the whole process very wrong, I am a programmer, let me please explain a little bit.

    Collision-detection (CDT) has nothing to do with moving object in the game by user / mouse. Therefore is no CDT needed.
    You can move every object in a program or engine without having CDT.

    CDT means that the object you move recognizes other objects, or that "peeps" recognize that there is a tree in front of them., that is CDT.
    While in building-mode the snapping uses some kind of CDT, so if you place a lamp at a wall, the lamp recognizes the wall and rotates themself and fits to the wall, thats an underlaying function of CDT.
    If you remove CDT in this case you could still replace and move the lamp, but it wont rotate correctly to the wall anymore by itself, and neither fits to it. It moves and rotates still and only the way the user does.

    Also if you use "Auto-tunnel", the track recognizes the terrain (CDT) and removes it. That is basically "ok", but in PC the radius where it is removed is way to big.
    Try to make a groove, put a log-flume-track in it and try to put the terrain close to the log-flume-track. You wont get it it, because of CDT, you even dont get close to it.
    Thats the point where CDT is a failure. Lets put it of if user wants, so you can lower terrain manualy out of the track if it clips through it, but that way you can get it completely close to the track.

  9. #84
    Originally Posted by Palaber1984 View Post (Source)
    @chems

    The problem with "no collision" is a good example. Does it really took month after month to make it happen?
    I don't know exactly how long it took, but It wasn't easy and even now its only implemented half way there.

    The same problem we have with dynamic lighting! Why can't set in the options to have dynamic lightning on every little piece. And why we can't create a totally black room with every walltype or better with every object. If I build a 1x1 room but covered with only wooden pillars then I expect totally black inside! The ENigne is not flexible. It looks great at the first time, after looking closer i realize that's away from awesome! Look a the fake boring water from the log flumes and rapid river
    What you are describing would be awesome, but it isn't realistic to expect. Especially for a game like Planet Coaster where we can place as many objects as we want, wherever we want. And what do you mean with the fake water? I have seen some people want actual fluid dynamics to make rivers and waterfalls but honestly these suggestions are ridiculous. RCTW and Cities Skylines have kind of dynamic water but it isn't really useful and does look extremely ugly (because to simulate 'real' water that looks good in real time will destroy the performance).

  10. #85
    Originally Posted by mbc View Post (Source)
    Agreed, that is what I expected too. PC is not bad, dont understand me wrong, but I feel there is much wrong with it atm. Make a basic game with easy control for kids and normal players, and make expansions with more complicated menus and options for people who wanna do a more realistic parks, but dont try to combine both into one.
    Interesting. The tools the game offers us are very advanced, but it is true they have a lot of arbitrary limitations put in place that limit the full potential of those tools (things like coaster restrictions or grid-sizes for instance). The tools also often miss certain more 'advanced' options that would really make everything work so much better (and easier!). For instance, trying to make an actual smooth coaster is just impossible now. For new/casual players, this gives the impression that they just aren't good enough to play this game, despite it being the game that limits the player, and for experienced players these limitations really get in the way of our creativity. For both groups this leads to frustration.

    The game has so many amazing tools that are limited by the lack of more advanced options. Planet Coaster is a great game but it could be so much better if we had access to the advanced options.

  11. #86
    Of course, PC is a great game, I dont wanna say anything else, they are great developers.

    What I simply wanna tell is, that I dont see for what kind of group this game is meant to be, and this is important for its controls and features, and what I blame Frontier for.
    For Kids the tools are mostly too complicated, Kids dont know about block-brakes, liftspeeds, or many other things. So I think this group mostly need the blueprints with less functions to change things. "Place and Play", only have fun with the game, thats OK.
    But on the other hand there are those "RCT-Freaks", which want much much more. The actual tools are completely missing this group. So I am missing the decision what this game is ? Kiddie-Game, or some more advanced? For a kiddie-game also the path system is much too complicated, it still doesnt work for many "big"-Users (as me) without straits.

    Thats where it comes to the base. The engine is not the right choice. Doing big parks with many "peeps" and good graphics cant be done with CPU only. But thats the first big miss that PC has, it cant use GPU and thats a no-go im my eyes.
    I mean it is not that we cant get a fully realistic game, but there is still much QOL missing. A little bit more realistic water, dark buildings, better lightning, ...

    The coaster-builder in PC is such a thing I am also wondering about it. I always see lots of coasters, that are way to rough, with too sharp corners, the cars would derail in reality. But you are still too much restricted in building, because your restricted the wrong way, and thats where I miss the QOL in this game. Smooth coaster could easier be possible if Frontier had taken a look at RCTW (yes, in this part is RCTW better, because they use a spline-based-system where you mostly get smooth tracks) and Themepark-Studio, this has an excellent coaster-builder, including options for individal supports. Sam puts so much effort onto realistic coasters, but the tools didnt get the work done in that quality they should, so ... realistic game or not ?
    So there is again the point: For many people this unsmooth coasters are good enough, they dont know and dont see the difference (realistic <-> unrealistic) and all those little tweeks that make it unrealistic.

    The performance-problems could half solved if they make all management-things optional disable. As I see there are two groups playing this game. Those who wanna do a park based on real management (but for that you need correct scaled prices) and those who only wanna build park without money-management. Last users suck up all CPU, because of big parks, many details, ... but half-CPU is used for calculating how much hamburgers have been sold last month. Again a thing I dont understand, making a sandbox-park doesnt need money-management od money att all. Disable it and you have more power for calculating important things.
    I asked this a developer many weeks ago if it would make sense doing that, but as ever no "communication".

    I could write so much more, but thats not part of this QOL- topic here.
    And for all hardcore-fans here again: I am not a PC-Hater but I see things more critical and ask more questions ... and I still have some about PC

  12. #87
    I would agree with heartily with a QoL patch, as well as more communication. I knew there were issues with a lot of things at launch, but I also knew it would take them some time to address the major ones. But now it's been 6 months. It's no longer too early to ask for more clarification about what they will be able to do going forward. Absent that, I think we should consider it "done." :/
    Watch the vendors most closely. They will stab you in the back at a moment's notice.

  13. #88
    Originally Posted by mbc View Post (Source)
    Of course, PC is a great game, I dont wanna say anything else, they are great developers.

    What I simply wanna tell is, that I dont see for what kind of group this game is meant to be, and this is important for its controlls and fratures, and what I blame Frontier for.
    For Kids the tools are mostly too complicated, Kids dont know about blockbrakes, liftspeeds, or many other things. So I think this group mostly need the bluprints with less functions to change things. "Place and Play", only have fun with the game, thats OK.
    But on the other hand there are those "RCT-Freaks", which want much much more. The actual tools are completely missing this group. So I am missing the decision what this game is ? Kiddie-Game, or some more advanced? For a kiddie-game also the path system is much too complicated, it still doesnt work for many "big"-Users (as me) without straits.
    This exactly! The game currently is neither fish nor fowl. The gameplay and challenge are too shallow and robotic to make it a proper game, and the building tools are too limited to call it a proper sandbox or design toy.

    The building system is the same thing. It is way too complicated to build simple buildings, especially with all the unpolished glitches that seem to fight against you (shift key that is getting stuck, gizmo unpredictable, incorrect hitboxes for selection, grid setting not remembering your setting, etc). Yet, real advanced builders don't have the tools to correctly align, mirror or distribute objects, let alone a proper set of neutral art assets to begin with. The included assets are too shiny, too bulky and stamped with a watermark for some bizarre reason. The props and animatronics look really nice, but they are too specific and overly detailed, meaning that you can only use it in very specific situations and everybody's scenes will look the same. There is not a single thing to customize them or make it yours, not even a little accent color. Hey, even that infamous Mr. Bones statue from RCT1 had a recolorable band on his tophat!

  14. #89
    Originally Posted by mbc View Post (Source)
    Of course, PC is a great game, I dont wanna say anything else, they are great developers.

    What I simply wanna tell is, that I dont see for what kind of group this game is meant to be, and this is important for its controls and features, and what I blame Frontier for.
    For Kids the tools are mostly too complicated, Kids dont know about block-brakes, liftspeeds, or many other things. So I think this group mostly need the blueprints with less functions to change things. "Place and Play", only have fun with the game, thats OK.
    But on the other hand there are those "RCT-Freaks", which want much much more. The actual tools are completely missing this group. So I am missing the decision what this game is ? Kiddie-Game, or some more advanced? For a kiddie-game also the path system is much too complicated, it still doesnt work for many "big"-Users (as me) without straits.
    Well said. I agree with your general message but you do have some misconceptions.


    Thats where it comes to the base. The engine is not the right choice. Doing big parks with many "peeps" and good graphics cant be done with CPU only. But thats the first big miss that PC has, it cant use GPU and thats a no-go im my eyes.
    I mean it is not that we cant get a fully realistic game, but there is still much QOL missing. A little bit more realistic water, dark buildings, better lightning, ...
    The engine is the right choice. The game runs pretty good if you consider what it actually does. And it doesn't only use the CPU, where did you get this information? The lighting engine is also really good. It would be a cool feature if items blocked all the light, but it is understandable that this is not possible due to performance reasons. The water could look better, agreed, but some people want actual fluid dynamics to create rivers and waterfalls...

    The coaster-builder in PC is such a thing I am also wondering about it. I always see lots of coasters, that are way to rough, with too sharp corners, the cars would derail in reality. But you are still too much restricted in building, because your restricted the wrong way, and thats where I miss the QOL in this game. Smooth coaster could easier be possible if Frontier had taken a look at RCTW (yes, in this part is RCTW better, because they use a spline-based-system where you mostly get smooth tracks) and Themepark-Studio, this has an excellent coaster-builder, including options for individal supports. Sam puts so much effort onto realistic coasters, but the tools didnt get the work done in that quality they should, so ... realistic game or not ?
    So there is again the point: For many people this unsmooth coasters are good enough, they dont know and dont see the difference (realistic <-> unrealistic) and all those little tweeks that make it unrealistic.
    The coaster builder really doesn't do the amazing coaster assets justice. I don't think it's bad, however. It almost has the perfect balance between 'advanced' and 'easy to use'. It just missing some tiny advanced options to make smooth coasters, which should easily be able to be implemented if Frontier uses a decent spline system.

    The performance-problems could half solved if they make all management-things optional disable. As I see there are two groups playing this game. Those who wanna do a park based on real management (but for that you need correct scaled prices) and those who only wanna build park without money-management. Last users suck up all CPU, because of big parks, many details, ... but half-CPU is used for calculating how much hamburgers have been sold last month. Again a thing I dont understand, making a sandbox-park doesnt need money-management od money att all. Disable it and you have more power for calculating important things.
    I asked this a developer many weeks ago if it would make sense doing that, but as ever no "communication".
    Most CPU power is used for the guest path-finding if i am not mistaken here. Disabling more management features would not really impact this.

    The general idea is that the game just lacks the options to give us total freedom. And as a sandbox builder it really should have as many options as possible. It doesn't matter if some of these options are very advanced, since you don't need to use them.

  15. #90
    I mean why not build in the options for maximum shadow and then let give us the choice to use it or not?

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